Short Term Rentals in Destin, 30A, and Panama City Beach: What Investors Need to Know (episode 1 of 10)

Avery Carl :
What’s up guys? It’s Avery Carl from the short term show doing the intro for the panhandle of Florida. We are doing a ten episode deep dive on two markets here, both the Emerald coast and the forgotten coasts of Florida, which basically makes up the entire Florida panhandle. So ten episode deep dive here. We are going to add quarterly updates, so make sure you hit that subscribe button. We also have some supplemental materials for you guys on our website. So anything you need to know about current short term rental property pricing in terms of how much it costs to buy a property in these markets, you can find that on our website@theshorttermshop.com, dot. You can also find current air DNA income data thanks to our friends over at, you guessed it, AirDna. And we’ve got all that for you guys.

Avery Carl :
So that you can listen to this at any point in time and go find live pricing and live income data. Also, if you guys want to buy a short term rental investment with a short term shop agent on the emerald or forgotten coast, you can just email us@agentshortermshop.com and we will get you hooked up. These are two of my very favorite beach markets, by the way. I’ve chosen to live in the Emerald coast. I also invest in the Emerald and forgotten coast, so very near and dear to my heart. Also, if you guys just have more questions and you want to chat about short term rentals, we’ve created an amazing community over on Facebook with over 50,000 short term rental investors just talking shop all day. It’s got the same title as my book. It’s called short term rental, long term wealth.

Avery Carl :
So head over there to chat more about short term rentals. And if you want to chat live on Zoom, we’ve got a call every Thursday that you can join@strquestions.com happy investing, y’all. Hey guys, welcome back to episode one of another ten episode series on our specific markets at the short term shop. So this one is going to be on the Emerald and forgotten coast. So that’s basically the entire panhandle of Florida. They’re really, really similar markets, which is why we’re combining them into, into one series. But the Emerald coast, just so you guys know, is everything basically from the Alabama state line over to Panama City beach and everything in between. So 38 Destin, Pensacola, Navarre, perdido Key, all that stuff.

Avery Carl :
And then the forgotten coast is from Mexico beach over to Appalachicola. So the main investment areas in the forgotten coast are Mexico beach, Port, St. Joe, Cape San Blas and St. George island. And without further ado, I’ll just go ahead and introduce the panel that we have on today. So, Luke, do you want to introduce yourself first?

Luke Carl :
Yes. Hello, long hair Luke. Cash flow Carl the shaman is short term. Happy to be here. I live in this area. I also have a podcast. Let me plug that short term rental management. And I’ve been doing this a long time.

Luke Carl :
I have about 5000 reservations on my resume and I teach the classes at the short term shop. So great to be here. Very familiar with the area, thanks to Avery. Never heard of it before I met her and do live here full time now and with our children. And it’s wonderful. The weather is fantastic. I live right kind of in the middle of where she’s talking about. But I own properties in three different sections of this area, so it’s great to be here.

Luke Carl :
Thank you.

Avery Carl :
Yeah, so we own both live on the Emerald coast. Own two on the Emerald coast and then own one in the forgotten coast. We’re actually headed to the forgotten coast this afternoon to go fishing. But anyway, now, Austin, introduce yourself.

Austin Lewis :
Sup, guys? Very happy to be here. I think Luke covered a lot of it. Beautiful weather we’re having down here. I am a Pensacola native, born and raised. I cover from Perdito Key, which would be the Alabama state line, and then all the way over to Fort Walton beach and anything Mitchell between, which would be Pensacola beach and Navarre beach.

Avery Carl :
Awesome. And next we have Katie Proctor. You introduce yourself, Katie.

Katie Proctor :
Hi, I’m Katie. I do not live in the southeast. I actually live in the mountain west outside of Denver, Colorado. But we decided to invest in the panhandle of Florida for our first investment property in 2021. We own in Port St. Joe, kind of in the center of the region that Avery described and really excited to be here. We’ve fallen in love with the area and just absolutely love it. So excited to share that enthusiasm with everyone.

Avery Carl :
Thanks, Katie. Thanks for being here.

Katie Proctor :
And.

Avery Carl :
Okay, so I guess we’ll start off with the differences between the areas. So, Austin, do you want to start? We’ll start at the Alabama state line and move east.

Austin Lewis :
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I mean, you guys, I’m sure have seen pictures of the beaches. I don’t, don’t have to sell you on that, of course. We’ve got just phenomenal beaches. But, you know, that’s the number one reason people are coming here. They’re coming down here, they’re turning into a lobster out on the beach and then they’re going and hanging out in the hotel room or the Airbnb most of the time. We’ve got a lot of national seashore on our beach.

Austin Lewis :
That’s what drives a lot of people to my area. I found is there’s just a lot of room to spread out and get a little bit more of a private feel. I compared my area to Amarillo island just because there’s not a lot of commercialization. There’s a lot of. Just feels like private beach. But if you didn’t want to go to the beach, we’ve got the blue angels. Those are native here. They practice two or three times a week, and then they’ve got a couple of big air shows every year.

Austin Lewis :
That is just absolutely nuts down here. Pensacola was actually the first settlement in all of America, so we got a lot of history. I want to say it was established in like, 1559. Could be wrong. You have to fact check me. But they call it the city of five Flags. It changed ownership a handful of times. We had the Spanish, French, British, Confederate, and then America.

Austin Lewis :
But lots of, lots of history. Lots of forts, Fort Pickens, Fort McRae, Fort Barankus, a few museums. We’ve got a zoo, and then, of course, you know, shopping and restaurants, um, for travel. A lot of people, sorry. If you guys can hear my little one, I’ve got a seven month old that he’s a, his sassy is babysitting right now. But motor travel, pretty much everybody’s driving. I mean, you definitely get some people flying down. We’ve got a big airport in Pensacola, but there’s a lot of people that drive.

Austin Lewis :
We get a lot of people from just the southeast. I think it’s going to be kind of the same from, for the whole panhandle, but the southeast, this is their go to spot, as you know, the panhandle. Let’s see, tourism data. Pensacola Beach, I believe, last year got around two and a half million visitors. And then Navarre beach was pretty similar. Navarre beach has actually been breaking its own record for the last, I think, seven years. There’s more and more people coming down Purdido key. I kind of throw in the pot with Pensacola beach.

Austin Lewis :
They’re, they’re kind of counting those folks at the same Perdito key is pretty much just a bunch of condos. So it, you know, it depends on your price point, really, where I would say, hey, let’s, let’s look here. And of course, what kind of deal and how much you’re financing. There’s a lot of variables that go into where you might end up. Uh, but as far as revenue goes, they’re all going to be pretty darn similar. Uh, Navarre beach is slightly higher just because you’re. You’re close to Destin. Um, you know, a lot of people, I find that.

Austin Lewis :
That stay in Navarre beach are wanting that, that quiet stay, but also be close to, you know, where there’s a lot of action, if that’s what they’re looking for. The demographics, we get majorly families, you know, snowbirds during the winter, probably going to be the same across the board, I feel like, for the panhandle and then the regulation, there’s not really many regulations. The area I cover is actually three different counties. I’ve got Escambia, Santa Rosa, and Okaloosa. But Escambia county as a whole is the biggest. That’s going to be Pensacola beach and Purito key. There’s not any. Any regulations that they don’t.

Austin Lewis :
Unless the HOa says otherwise, that’s going to be the biggest thing. We, you know, we got to read the CC and ours if we’re buying where there’s an hoA. But I can. I probably know if, you know, if you find something that you like, then I probably know if you’re going to be able to get there or not. And, of course, you got to have business licenses, taxes. It’s going to depend on which county you buy in. Most of them average, I mean, as a whole, for the tourist tax, and everything is going to be around 12%, but it’s really going to depend on which county you end up in. I think that covers it.

Avery Carl :
Okay, awesome. Thanks, Austin. And now we’ll scoot over to the eastern half of the Emerald coast, and then we will do forgotten coast. So next, after Navarre, if we’re moving eastward, is going to be Fort Walton beach. It’s more of an actual city. It’s, well, small, very small city. It’s a military town. There’s a lot of military bases, but the main area where vacationers go is called Okaloosa island.

Avery Carl :
It is a lot of condos. There are a few single family homes, but a lot of condos on okaloosa island when I was younger, in junior high, so, like, early two thousands. Fort Walton was more popular than Destin, at least in. In my area of Mississippi, in terms of where people went, and it’s kind of flip flopped. Now, um, price points are a little bit lower than, like, in, say, just east in Destin. Uh, but it’s very, very close, the aquariums there. So if you’re going to the aquarium anywhere, on the Emerald coast. You’re.

Avery Carl :
You’re going there. Um, there’s also a zoo in Gulf breeze, which is in Austin’s neck of the woods. Um, that’s about it for Fort Walton. Uh, we scoot over to Destin, which is, I would say one of the. I’d say the second biggest city after Panama City on the Emerald coast. Uh, Dustin, very, uh, very mature vacation market. Had. Luke, the face you’re making has really distracted me.

Avery Carl :
So it’s a really mature vacation market. Um, my grandmother has been renting. I’ve said this a thousand times, and.

Luke Carl :
Even though I was making a face.

Avery Carl :
The BlackBerry face never knew that Zoolander didn’t even know. Oh, sorry, guys. So anyway, I’ve said this a thousand times, so people are probably sick of hearing it. My grandmother has been renting, coming from Mississippi to rent vacation rentals in Destin since 1937. So it’s a very well established vacation town. They also refer to it as the luckiest little fishing village in Florida. Destin has a pretty cool harbor with lots of bars on it and activities and things for the kids to do at the harbor walk. There are houses on the harbor.

Avery Carl :
I would recommend staying to the beach, staying on the beach and. And not doing the harbor, but there can be specific exceptions to that. Um, what else? What else? So, uh, there are a few specific areas of destin that I really, really like for short term rentals. There are holiday Isle and Crystal beach in Destiny. Uh, and we have another episode coming up on this. You can’t go north of 98 to. For short term rentals, so you have to stay walkable to the beach. Uh, there are.

Avery Carl :
There’s a process for getting short term rental license. There’s not any sort of limit on how many there can be. They just like to keep things organized around here. You have to get business licenses, things like that. Um, and that’s in Okaloosa county. So next you’ll. We’ll be over in Miramar, just east of Destin, Miramar beach. And you won’t notice that you’re switching into Miramar.

Avery Carl :
But it is a different county. It’s in Walton county. In Walton county, there’s really no regulations, but they are changing that. Not really to. To limit anything, just to be a little bit more organized, like, so people know who to call if there’s a problem with one. But Miramar beach and the 30 a area are in Walton county. So Miramar is, like I said, really comparable to Destin. You won’t even know you’ve crossed into Miramar unless you see the sign that says, oh, now you’re in Walton County, 30 a.

Avery Carl :
Oh, and by the way, Destin and Miramar are both like very, very developed lots and lots of activities and attractions and go karts and putt putt and water parks and all kinds of things. So it’s not just the beach, although the beach is, of course, the main attraction. Target urban air, all kinds of just stuff to do. And then once you get over into Walton county on 38, which is a small highway that goes about 14 miles, and I say highway, the speed limit is 35 miles an hour. And you can take golf carts on it. But it goes from dune Allen on the far west to Inlet beach on the far east. Lots of little communities along 38, some more expensive and exclusive than others. But the whole deal with 38 is they want to keep it small and feel like a small beach town.

Avery Carl :
So along 30 a, you’re not going to see any chain restaurants or chain stores or there’s no drive thrus allowed. So they try to keep everything small, local and upscale. Uh, then you scoot over to Panama City Beach. Panama City is going to be the best bang for your buck on the, this end of the Emerald coast, meaning not Austin’s end. Uh, it’s going to. It’s the most affordable. Lots of condos. There’s lots of condos in Destin to not very many condos in 38.

Avery Carl :
Um, but lots and lots of condos in Panama City. There’s an. An airport in Panama City, so it’s more accessible than some of the other areas. I think overall, we get about 20 million visitors a year across the Emerald coast, and they’re staying in everything from one bedroom condos to 20 bedroom beach houses. So we have a little bit of everything in terms of rental size. And Bay county, again, really similar regulations. You have to get a business license, you have to go through a little bit of a licensing process, but nothing terrible. Bay county in Panama City beach, there are some more neighborhoods that kind of.

Avery Carl :
That don’t allow short term rentals because there are more people who live in Panama City beach. It’s also a military town. So your agent in Panama City, your short term shop agent in Panama City, will, will help you navigate that. Uh, anything else, Luke, you want to add to our neck of the woods?

Luke Carl :
Yeah, sure. So, yeah, well, things there, um, I will say that Destin, uh, if, if you’re new to this whole thing, uh, I would say that Destin is probably the most involved when it comes to licensing and permits. Uh, probably of any short term shop market. Um, I don’t want that to be a turn off, though. It is, uh, it is, uh, not. It’s not like they’re not going to give it to you as in, like, San Diego, where you’re like, oh, my God, they’re not going to let me do this. It’s not like that. Well, they certainly do want this to happen here.

Luke Carl :
It’s. The majority of what’s going on here, which is, I mean, you know, it’s a vacation town. The end of the day has been for forever, and, but, but the process is fairly involved. I would. I would allow yourself 30 to 45 days to get, if against Destin specific here, okaloosa County, Destin specific. To get all your ducks in a row there with your license and your sticker and your sign and all that sort of stuff that you’re going to have to learn about. It can be done in a much shorter period of time. But if you’re brand new and, you know, have a day job and you’re a little overwhelmed and the closing of the property and all this other stuff is going on, I would recommend that you get, you know, start getting involved with that sooner than later.

Luke Carl :
You don’t have to be closed on the property to get that process started. And the city is very helpful. They have several phone numbers set up to answer questions and help you along with the process. It’s almost all virtual as well. When I first started, it was not. They were kind of. They kind of frowned upon folks that weren’t coming into the office. Uh, now they have.

Luke Carl :
Have it set up to where it’s, uh, it is. No, no longer like that. Uh, once you get your license and your permits and, and your sticker, there’s a sticker you have to put on a sign. The sign has to be like the exact size that they say it is in front of your home. Um, they now bring this. This is exciting. This just happened this last year. They now bring the sticker to us.

Luke Carl :
We don’t have to go get it anymore. It used to be we had to go in to the office physically or send somebody as representation to go get it and then put it on our home. Now they drive around and do it for us, which is cool. But again, a little bit of a lengthy, kind of a pain in the rear end process there, and as it should be, Destin is very proud of destin, and it is a very beautiful place, and, and, and I don’t hold it against them in any way. And again, the beaches, you know, we can’t say enough about the beaches here. All this entire area that we’re talking about all the way down to, like, Panama City proper. These beaches, again, I’m a guy that’s come, comes from the most landlocked part of the United States. You put your finger on the middle of the United States.

Luke Carl :
That’s where I’m from. So I had, I actually didn’t even see an ocean until I was about 19. And, and this, this beach down here is, is. You’re not, you’re not going to find anything like it without a passport. You’re just not, you know, so it is, it is incredible and beautiful. And we have a lot of major cities that are driving distance to all of these areas. Nashville is going to come down here in Oxville, Tennessee, Memphis, Jackson, Mississippi. Atlanta is a huge hub.

Luke Carl :
Obviously, that’s a massive city. Montgomery, Alabama, Birmingham, Mobile, New Orleans, because, I mean, yeah, New Orleans is right there, kind of on the gulf, but it’s not like this, you know, I mean, these beaches are nuts. So Savannah, Georgia, you know, they’re coming over from all over, all over the southeast to come enjoy these beaches. They can bring their kids, they don’t have to get on an airplane. Uh, it’s a wonderful thing.

Avery Carl :
Yeah, we get a lot of Texas people too, like Dallas people come over. Um, yeah, I think that’s it for Emerald coast. I’m sure we’ll think of something later to add to it, but we have plenty of time. So, uh, moving eastward east of Panama City is Mexico beach. So once you get into the forgotten coast, the beaches are still beautiful, but they’re not quite as nuts as the Emerald coast. But they’re still like. I mean, we go on vacation to the forgotten coast from the Emerald coast. So they’re definitely still beautiful, but the water isn’t quite as bright clear as it is over here.

Avery Carl :
Mexico beach is teeny, teeny tiny. There is like one store and one restaurant like, beach bar thing. And it’s really just one strip of 98. It’s maybe four or five tiers deep. And it’s a significantly lower price point than the Emerald coast. Water is very calm over there. Very rarely are there a bunch of waves. And it’s definitely more of like a, you’re coming here to sit on the beach and chill, not go do a bunch of craziness like attractions and putt putt and all kinds of things.

Avery Carl :
There’s no bars, there’s no nightlife. It’s just hanging out on the beach. Um, then I’ll let Katie take over with Port St. Jo.

Katie Proctor :
So, similar to some of the areas that were discussed, the forgotten coast also spans several different counties. So as Avery was explaining, Mexico beach is in Bay county. It was one of the hardest hit by Hurricane Michael in 2018. So you can definitely see that rebuilding, I would say, for new construction. It seems like one of the, like, higher opportunity areas for that. And one of the unique factors of the forgotten coast is that there’s the gulf and there’s also the bay. So Mexico beach is fully on the gulf. And as you get further down into Port St.

Katie Proctor :
Joe, you’ll see, like, St. Joseph’s Bay, which kind of curls around and creates, like, this really calm pocket of water, which is really nice. Like, I have young kids, so to be able to take, you know, little kids out there, there’s very minimal waves. It’s really enjoyable, really peaceful. Um, the bay is definitely, like, even less clear, typically, than the gulf side. Um, I’ve been a snowbird in Miramar beach, you know, 38 area before. And. And so I do agree that there is a difference in water clarity, but the also a difference in overall commercialism.

Katie Proctor :
You know, as an owner, there’s not a Walmart, there’s not a home depot, you know, none of that in the forgotten coast, it’s really still all more locally owned businesses, like one main grocery store. So that’s just something to consider, you know, around your preferences or the preferences of tourists who may be visiting the area. It also is unique in that it spans two different time zones. So there has been more than one time where I’ve gone to dinner, like, in Mexico beach, and not realize that, because our rental in Port St. Joe is in eastern time, and my, like, phone changed, and it was so confusing. So that’s something I think, like, managing with guests, like, helping them understand that they may be traveling, you know, within the different towns in the area. I think maybe more so than even Dustin. Like, people do travel in between the various towns when they’re visiting because they’re all pretty close to each other and they offer something a little bit different.

Katie Proctor :
I know whenever we go down to our property, we’re pretty nicely situated in between everything. It takes, like, ten minutes to get to Mexico Beach, 20 minutes to get to the Cape, maybe 45 minutes to get to St. George island. And so I would say, like, having a car is nice if you are interested in checking all of those different areas out. But Port St. Joe is really more of the commercial hub. There’s a downtown with restaurants and with little boutiques they just reopened the marina, which is really exciting, I think. Again, with this area having been more recently affected by a hurricane, I see that as a lot of opportunity for growth and for investment.

Katie Proctor :
It’s changing. There’s new restaurants coming in, but still aiming to maintain that charm. In between Mexico beach and downtown Port St. Joe, a couple different beach areas that might be worth considering are St. Joe beach and Windmark Beach. St. Joe beach is another public beach area, and there’s a lot of different houses, I think, compared to Destin area. Like I know you said north of 98, you can’t invest.

Katie Proctor :
The beach side of 98 that stretches through forgotten coast is much smaller. And so as of right now, there’s not regulations, you know, whether you can be north or south of 98 in the forgotten coast, I’d say there’s still quite a few investors in vacation rentals that own on the other side of the highway. Ours is one of those, and it’s okay. And it hasn’t been an issue for rentability. So I think that’s just something to consider. Like, as you would be looking at various properties, what is their proximity to the beach, you know, and how much does that matter? Windmark beach is definitely more of a, like, new construction. They look more typical, like typical spec homes. But the community is really nice.

Katie Proctor :
There’s a little downtown area, golf cart friendly boardwalk, some bike trails over there as well, which I think is really nice. The forgotten coast, I’m not sure if this is the same with the other areas, but you can have bonfires on the beach, you can dogs. It’s dog friendly beaches. So that’s something that’s unique. This area is in Gulf county, so that’s the area that I’m most familiar with in terms of regulations. Our property is in a. An area called Barefoot cottages, which is technically in the city of Port St. Joe, but an area where short term rentals are allowed.

Katie Proctor :
There are certain areas near downtown where they are technically not allowed, but because of our location, we didn’t have to comply with certain regulations, like inspections. So I know, like out on the cape, there’s, I think, requirements where you have to get an inspection and certain other requirements to get your license for short term rental. We just. We didn’t have to do that. But as Avery and Luke have shared, I think regulations are a good thing so far in this area. It’s not to restrict rental activity, it’s to organize it. It’s to make sure that you are registered, that you’re paying your taxes, you know, and all of those things. For me, the Gulf county like tourism center was so helpful, not only in figuring out how to set up your rental, but also they can provide data, like they provided me, with a list of towns and zip codes where they get most of their visitors from, and as well as the areas where they were going to be starting to focus on marketing more.

Katie Proctor :
I think they want to be the next, you know, 30, a destined area. And so they’re working hard to market the area to other states and vacationers. So I think just as an owner, it’s cool to see the growth and the change happening. And that’s why for me, it was an exciting place to invest. The price points are a little bit more affordable compared to other areas in the panhandle, I think, because it’s still getting established. So I just. I do see a lot of opportunity. As you go further down the coast, there’s kind of a point where you can turn either left or right.

Katie Proctor :
You go down. If you go right, you go towards Cape San Blas, which is wonderful. I think it’s. I think. I know that’s where you guys own Avery and Luke. It’s. I love going down there. In terms of real estate, it’s unique in that, I mean, it’s like a peninsula.

Katie Proctor :
There’s not a lot of room for development and new rental properties. So I think the value of a home, you know, on the cape is strong because they can only build so many homes, you know, on that stretch of the cape. Half of it, one side fronts to the bay and the other side fronts to the gulf. And I just find that it’s a really desirable place to be.

Avery Carl :
In.

Katie Proctor :
A lot of the Facebook groups, I see a lot of people specifically wanting to be on the cape. The north, there’s the north end and kind of the more like south end. The north end is by the state park. I think, you know, again, everyone’s going to have their preferences, but I do see people saying, like, they want to be on the north end as well. So there’s just so many different options for investment in this area. If you were to turn the other direction on the highway, you would get to Indian Pass, which is just more of a laid back area, I would say. This area tends to be the most brackish water, from what I hear. Like, the water clarity isn’t quite as nice, but the beaches are still really nice and doesn’t mean the water is, like, dirty.

Katie Proctor :
But that’s just, you know, sometimes vacationers are going to want something specific, and so if that’s important to you. I would say, like, that area is just a little bit less on the water clarity side. And then if you keep going, well, I guess one thing I should say about Gulf county, I’m not sure if it’s true about all the other areas, but the way that it faces west, it has like, such beautiful sunsets, so you can see those, like, every single day. And it’s just really cool experience. Going further east, you get into Franklin county, which is going to be apalachicola. Apalachicola is more like a little town. It has a lot of boutiques, even more than Port St. Joe for shopping.

Katie Proctor :
I personally love to go there on a rainy day because there’s just a lot to do in terms of shopping. I don’t know quite as much about the desirable areas to invest over there because I haven’t really done any of the beaches or anything. But right around the corner is St. George island. And that’s going to be a more similar vibe to the cape from my visits. I think it has fewer restaurants. It does seem to draw, like, a more celebrity type clientele. But it’s also, if you’re driving, you know, regionally, the area draws similar crowd.

Katie Proctor :
Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, even like, up to Ohio and Indiana. A lot of those people are driving for me, like, we’ve. Sometimes we fly and you have to fly into Panama City, and then it takes about an hour, you know, to get even to Port St. Joe. Like, St. George island, just to me, feels like even further. Maybe a lot of people have their own private planes that like to go there. But, yeah, that’s something to consider, is accessibility.

Katie Proctor :
You know, I think the further you get from Panama City, it’s less accessible to people who might be flying unless they were maybe to go north to Tallahassee. So hopefully that was a good summary. Not too long winded.

Avery Carl :
That was very good. Very impressed.

Luke Carl :
Bravo.

Avery Carl :
Yeah, and we. We are Cape people. Like I said, we’re going down today. But again, guys, all of these areas on the forgotten coast, it’s called forgotten for a reason, because supposedly they, whoever they are, when they developed the rest of Florida, they forgot about this area. And so it’s still, like, very quiet, very like. Like I said, if you’re going to Cape sandblast, you’re. There’s one or two, there’s three restaurants on the cape, but it’s kind of like if your aunt, who’s a really good cook but not great at running a business, had a restaurant, like you’re going to go, and the food’s going to be great, but they’re like going to be open when they feel like being open. And it’s going to take you 45 minutes to get a sweet tea because they don’t have their systems down right.

Avery Carl :
And that’s fine. I don’t want them to fix their systems. I like it messy. I don’t want it to change. A couple more things that I kind of want to mention about comparing the two. So the people who came to 30 a, like 2030 years ago when 38 was really, really quiet, now 38 is really, really busy. It has totally caught on. Now those people who want the quiet, they now go to the Forgotten coast, whether it’s St.

Avery Carl :
George island or Cape sand blast or any of the other ones. It’s definitely a place that is kind of picking up steam in terms of mainstream awareness. But I will also say so the, the main difference between the emerald and forgotten coast is Emerald coast is what I would call a blue chip short term rental market. And the forgotten coast is what I would call an emerging short term rental market. So what I mean by that is Emerald coast, very commercialized. There’s a lot more sophisticated short term rental investors in the Emerald coast because of the, the great returns that you’ve been able to get. So the cat is fully out of the bag when it comes to the Emerald coast. So there’s a lot of people, us who invest in the Emerald coast who optimize their listings, who use the right property management software, who use dynamic pricing, who really manage well.

Avery Carl :
And because of that, it’s just more popular for investors right now. In terms of the forgotten coast, I call it emerging, not because it’s an emerging market to vacation in, but because it’s emerging in terms of people investing there. So the markets are the same in terms of being very, very mature vacation rental markets. These are areas that have had short term rentals for decades and decades since before Airbnb, since before the Internet existed. But the difference with the Forgotten coast is that I would say 90%, maybe more of the short term rentals there, which it’s almost all short term rentals, with a few exceptions, are on maybe five to ten really old school, kind of archaic property management companies. They’re not on Airbnb, they’re not on Verbo, they’re still doing the whole, hey, you can get a whole house for the price of a hotel and look at our crappy pictures on here things. So it can be, it can look like the numbers aren’t great in the Forgotten coast, but it’s because there aren’t really many good managers that are on trackable platforms. So the majority of short term rentals in the coast aren’t track in the forgotten coast aren’t trackable because they’re not on those platforms.

Avery Carl :
And they’re also underperforming because they’re with these really old school management companies. So it’s, if you’re okay with there not being a ton of great data, then it’s a really good opportunity because it’s not hard when, when 90% of the rentals are on underperforming management companies, it’s really easy to climb to the top of that.

Katie Proctor :
So can I add to that? Yeah. I just found that to be so true when we were doing our research. And it was challenging because it was our first investment. And so it was nerve wracking looking through some of the data and seeing one in our community specifically, almost every cottage that was being rented out was with Vicosa. And then not only that, we were seeing pricing under $100 a night almost universally throughout the community, for a two bedroom. And so that, you know, like, man, if that’s really all you can get, I’m not sure, you know, if this is going to. If this is going to be a good investment. But I think since then, there’s been ourselves and a couple of other investors that have gone into that community specifically and helped, like, elevate the, the decor and the ambience and experience.

Katie Proctor :
Like, we just got a review the other day that was like, this is the third barefoot cottage that we’ve stayed in, and by far the best, you know, the cleanest, the best decor. And so I think you do have to, like, I guess, confront maybe what people, prior visitors have biases about what a certain community might feel like, and you have the opportunity to improve that experience. And we were able to really, you know, optimize our rental rates throughout the year, especially in the summer, like, you know, beyond what any of any other owners were asking, you know, for a summer time, because we were using dynamic pricing and getting the rates that we were looking for. And so I just reiterating, I think that was a great point because we. That’s something we definitely face as well. And we. Luckily, we were conservative with our numbers when we looked into it and. And did better than we had hoped.

Luke Carl :
Yeah, I’ll say the same thing about the cape, which is, I’m right down the street from. From Katie. When I went into the cape, nobody was doing it. You know, it was like, I mean, there’s again, we already mentioned this was.

Avery Carl :
Only two years ago.

Luke Carl :
Couple years ago. There’s so few properties there. Anyway, it’s really slow. I mean, even when Avery started talking about the forgotten coast, her, you know, like, her demeanor kind of is slowed down. I mean, it’s very country, you know, sit on the beach and do nothing kind of vibe. And it’s old school, you know, I’m. I. There was very, very, very few people in my area that were even using Airbnb.

Luke Carl :
I think there really kind of still is. You know, most people are using verbo again. Vrbo’s been around a really long time, so it’s. It’s a slow country. Sit on the beach and drink. What do you call those things? Truly is. What do you call them?

Avery Carl :
White cloths.

Luke Carl :
True white claws. Yeah. Crushing claws or what. There’s a phrase there my brother said the other day. Anyway, I don’t know. What’s that? It was hilarious.

Avery Carl :
When you’re drinking the claw.

Luke Carl :
Yeah. What was it?

Avery Carl :
I don’t know. That’s. I. Old bartender friend of mine used to say that when. When white claw first kind of started catching on, and it was, like, not cool to do, but what was the phrase? Okay, there’s no law when you’re drinking the claw.

Luke Carl :
There you go. You know, it’s really what it is. There’s a lot of people fishing from the beach. They got their dogs out there. It’s. It’s a cool vibe, you know, and. And so. But I do think there’s an element there that this is that at least the southern part of the area that we’re talking about now, the forgotten coast, you kind of.

Luke Carl :
I think there is an element that you kind of need to want to be there. If you’re just somebody from Arizona that just wants to buy a house that’s going to rent, and you never think about it, never go there. Don’t really care other than cash flow, you know, it’s probably not your vibe. This is definitely a place where you’re gonna fall in love, and you’re gonna go there a lot. I mean, we live 2 hours up the road, and we’re going down there today, you know, so it’s a different vibe. And because of all that and because it is such a teeny, tiny little area, vendors are hard to find. So on the management side of things, that’s something you got to take into consideration down there. That my house down there is only three or four years old, and I will say that, like, my.

Luke Carl :
Kind of my honeydew list on that one or your rainy day list, like the stuff that you, you know, you’re, you’re kind of like, saving to get done when you have the time or the right guy. That list gets a little bigger on that house because there’s just nobody to do anything. And, and when you do find somebody, you gotta call them, like 16 times to get them to show up. Um, and so that’s just part of the deal. Um, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing at all. It’s just different. And looks like Katie shaking her head and agrees with me there.

Avery Carl :
Yeah.

Katie Proctor :
I think even with the restaurants, just if you sit and take time to talk with the locals, they’re very tight knit community, especially everything that they’ve gone through, you know, with the hurricane over the last several years, think really brought people together. But as a result, you know, I know a lot of restaurants and retailers pull their staff from Panama City, you know, because there’s not a lot of people directly in the area. So I do think it is more challenging than a more established area for help, or I think that’s why, you know, the restaurant experience is a little bit different. Yeah, I would agree with that.

Luke Carl :
Yeah. And there’s no big city. You know, you go to the Smoky Mountains, you got Knoxville right there. That’s a major city. And of course, Orlando, all these vacation towns where the short term shop is, there’s usually a major city within a little, a little driving distance here. I mean, Tallahassee is like an hour and a half, you know, so. And really, Panama City, Panama City beach is the biggest city. You’re going to have to get people to do stuff for you, and you’re kind of asking them to do you a favor.

Luke Carl :
You know, if you’re, if you’re in Apalachicola or, uh, or the cape and, and you’re calling somebody that to do it, like a, like a tile job or a kind of a bigger job, like lay, LVP, something like that, from Panama City, you know, they’re gonna roll their eyes. They’re gonna be like, man, I don’t know you. This house is really far away. You know, I don’t even know if you’re gonna be a pain in my rear end, that kind of thing. But again, it’s all just stuff that goes with management in general. And to me, it’s just another day at the office. But it is something to consider if you’re brand new.

Avery Carl :
Okay, so we’ve gone over attractions. Most people are driving in, but there are a few airport options, are we? I think we’ve covered most reasons, like why tourists come here and why it’s a good place to invest. We’re trying to stay away guys from, like, specifically purchase price number. So if you find this episode in a year, it’s still relevant? Well, I mean, there’s, there’s not a lot of condos in the forgotten coast. There’s a few, but not many. And then Panama City is a lot of condos. Destin’s a lot of condos. Fort Walton’s a lot of condos.

Avery Carl :
And we’ll talk about this more in another episode in depth. But condos are a great investment in these markets, and we’ll get into the details of that in a later episode. But I don’t want you guys to go, oh, I want to buy something here. I need a two bedroom. And then see, the only lower occupancy properties, like one and two bedrooms are typically condos. And then change your mind, because in markets like these, condos work really well and you don’t really have to worry about the, oh, what if the HOA, the reason that condos exist in these markets is to house vacationers? So they would not exist. They would be condemned because no one would be there to be paying the HoA maintenance if we weren’t allowed to rent them out.

Luke Carl :
So, yeah, I do want to touch on one thing there. We’re kind of jumping all over with all these markets and all these areas and things. But, you know, just keep, keep in mind that destin is expensive. You know, I don’t want to give any purchase prices, but we do see a lot of folks that are like, I want to buy a house in Destin, and then they get upset or something when, when they realize, you know, that it’s out of their budget kind of thing, you know, I mean, destin is a higher end and 30 a higher end type of an area. And then another thing on product, as far as that’s concerned, down in the forgotten coast, it’s less product. It’s a very small area. You might be waiting, you know, a month or two or three for something new to pop up on the market that you’re interested in. And you can sit there and blame that on the market.

Luke Carl :
There’s nothing for sale because of the market, or it’s a seller’s market, it’s a buyer’s market, this, that and the other. But the truth is there’s just not a lot of houses there, you know? So if you have a very specific buy box, and you’re trying to buy something in the forgotten coast. Patience is.

Avery Carl :
Is.

Luke Carl :
Is definitely on your side.

Avery Carl :
Cool. Well, if no one else has anything to add, I think we hit on everything. Everybody had, like, a fishing off the cuff like presentation that was very organized.

Luke Carl :
Even though fishing is wonderful. Also, I also want to mention the running. I’m a huge runner. I base my, where I live on how good the running is. And the running is absolutely fantastic in these areas. All these areas. Matter of fact, Austin, I ran the Pensacola beaches half marathon a couple of months ago. The best half marathon course that I’ve ever run.

Luke Carl :
I’ve run. I mean. I mean, more than I can count. So all sorts of fun stuff to do down here, if you like, like being outside, coming from where. Where I come from, where there’s a whole lot of snow. I mean, the snow is just mountain April right now. May snow’s just melting where I’m from. And down here, no, man, I don’t even have to think about it anymore.

Luke Carl :
So it’s a lot of. A lot of bonuses down here. It’s a really wonderful, beautiful place. Tell those hurricane.

Avery Carl :
Oh, and actually we got the hurricanes. Speaking of fishing, scalloping in the forgotten coast and stone cape sandblast. That’s a huge thing in the fall. And you will get booked because of that. I’ve never been. I really want to go. And maybe we’ll do that this year or because we always plan again.

Luke Carl :
I talk about the hurricanes because that does come up. I’m scared of them. I’ll be honest with you. I’ll sit. I’ll sit on the front porch in the lawn chair with the tornado going through. Right? I don’t care about tornadoes, but these hurricanes, they scare the crap out of me. So if I’m buying in Florida, what’s your hurricane speech for me? You grew up in the south.

Avery Carl :
First I have to tell a story about you. So, a few years ago, when we lived in Nashville, there was a really terrible. It was in 2020, right before the COVID thing. The COVID thing?

Luke Carl :
That one thing.

Avery Carl :
That thing.

Luke Carl :
We were on east side of Nashville there.

Avery Carl :
Okay. So there was this horrible tornado that came through and completely destroyed east Nashville. We lived in Mount Juliet, which is east of Nashville, completely destroyed Mount Juliet. And I woke up and I was still a brand new mom at that point, so I was, like, worried everything was going to, like, kill us. And I said, luke, the tornado sirens are going off. And he was like, it’s no big deal. Go back to sleep. And I was like, I don’t know.

Avery Carl :
We have a baby. Maybe we should get in the closet. And he acted like I was completely psycho. Just like, hysterical woman.

Luke Carl :
That’s a Tuesday afternoon where I come from. I mean, it happens all the time.

Avery Carl :
You know, a tornado ripped the roof off of my school while I was in it in 7th grade. So you act like I haven’t been through it. But anyway, so we go, okay, I.

Luke Carl :
Didn’T mean to laugh.

Avery Carl :
Wake up again. Wake up at 05:00 in the morning and the news is on. All of Mount Juliet is gone. Like completely gone, which is 2 miles from us. And anyways, I slept right through it.

Austin Lewis :
Yep.

Avery Carl :
It told me I was hysterical.

Luke Carl :
Anyway, it’s the opposite with these hurricanes. These hurricanes come down, avery’s like, leave me alone, I’m going to bed. And the roof’s blowing off, the windows are shaking. I’m like freaking out.

Austin Lewis :
Okay, so the thing about tornadoes.

Avery Carl :
Yeah, you’ve got plenty time.

Luke Carl :
You’re from here. You know what I mean? It’s a different vibe, man.

Austin Lewis :
Tornadoes, and I don’t even bet if it’s a one or two is, hey, this is. We got a storm coming. We’re not going to be able to do anything this weekend type of deal. A three is like, we better watch this, kind of figure out where it goes. I’ve lived here my whole life, and I’ve been through what I would call two serious hurricanes. One was in 2019, was Hurricane Sally and Hurricane Ivan, and I think was like 18 years ago. I barely remember it, to be totally honest with you. But, um, that was, I mean, people here, hey, Florida gets x amount of hurricanes a year, and it’s like, okay, well, the one that hit tampa, you know, it was definitely devastating, but we didn’t even get a raindrop from it.

Austin Lewis :
Yeah, it was a little hurricane Michael. You know, it was devastating. But up here in our neck of the woods, we got a little bit of wind, a little bit of rain. So Florida is a big area. So it’s not. It’s not as many as what it sounds like.

Avery Carl :
Yeah. And it’s a. It can be up to a three. So we were here for Sally, and it was just like three days of a bad thunderstorm. Um, but anyway, let’s talk about just, you know, the preparing for that. And I. A lot of people will say, oh, I don’t want to buy on the coast because hurricanes, so hurricanes happen. They happen every year.

Avery Carl :
We have a hurricane season, but it’s really unlikely that the. The likelihood that you’re going to take a direct hit is really, really small. Sometimes they. They fizzle out in the gulf. There are a thousand other places in Florida they can hit. So just because one hits one area of Florida doesn’t mean the other areas are feeling it. Florida is a really, really big state, but here’s what I have to say about that. Um, natural disasters and just things can happen anywhere.

Avery Carl :
So my grandmother has had a house that was built in 1969 here in Destin on the water, and it has never had hurricane damage. Luke and I bought a duplex in Chattanooga five or six years ago, and within a month and a half of owning it, it got run over by a tornado. The Destin house should have gotten hit by a hurricane a thousand times before the Chattanooga house got hit by a tornado. But things happen, so you know they’re going to happen. You make sure that you have the proper insurance and, um, know that the likelihood is small that you’re going to have actual damage or, um, worst case, most worst case. Well, I don’t want to say worst case, medium case scenario, like you might lose a couple bookings because they were booked and they decided not to come because there’s a hurricane coming. Uh, so my advice on that would be, you know, invest based on what happens 99.9% of the time, which is cash flow investing like normal things. Don’t choose not to invest over what could happen 0.01% of the time, because there’s a thousand things that can happen 0.01% of the time, and you’re always going to be able to find a reason not to.

Avery Carl :
And if you just aren’t going to be able to sleep at night worried about hurricanes? We have plenty of mountain markets or other types of markets for you to come invest with us in at the short term shop. So I’m not worried about the hurricanes. Um, but if, if we’re here to help you grow your wealth and income so that you can sleep better at night, not so that you cannot sleep at night because you’re worried about hurricanes. So that’s my.

Katie Proctor :
And factor in the cost of insurance.

Luke Carl :
Yes, insurance is. Yeah, it’s a thing.

Avery Carl :
All right. Um, and we, we talk about that in another episode. We go into further detail about those expenses. So, guys, thank you so, so much for your time this morning. Thanks for coming on. If you guys want to buy a place in the emerald or forgotten coasts with the short term shop, email us at agents at the shorttermshop.com. or if you just want to join the conversation about short term rental investing, want to hear more about all the markets that we are agents in. You can join us every Thursday for an open Zoom call@strquestions.com or also join our public Facebook group at.

Avery Carl :
It’s called short term rental, long term wealth, same as my book, and we’d love to have you and continue the conversation. Thanks, guys.