Avery Carl [00:00:00]:
Foreign Good afternoon Short Term shoppers. You are now in the Short Term show special episode series on the western North Carolina mountains. So this is everywhere from Asheville all the way down to Bryson City, basically that entire southwestern corner of the state. We’re going to be doing a deep dive, 10 episodes worth of content on investing in this part of North Carolina. You now we do have some supplemental materials for you over on our website. Things like purchase prices of investment properties in this market as well as the Air DNA income data. Thank you friends over at Air DNA. So if you guys want to know what all of these properties cost, you know the different purchase prices, you can see that on the Shorttermshop.com as well as the income data.

Avery Carl [00:00:48]:
You can find that there too. If you guys want to buy an investment property in western North Carolina with a short term shop agent, email us at agents at the Short term and we will get you hooked up. Or if you just have more questions, you want to come hang out with us some more. We’ve got a great Facebook group with a wonderful community of investors over at Short Term Rental, Long Term wealth, same title as my book. And if you guys want to chat with us live anytime, we’ve got a call every Thursday and you can join that@strquestions.com we look forward to seeing you over there.

Brad Burcham [00:01:23]:
Foreign.

Avery Carl [00:01:27]:
Welcome back to the Short Term show special episode series on the western North Carolina mountains. The Smoky Mountains in North Carolina, we call them the North Carolina side a lot of times over here on the Tennessee side. So pardon the jargon. Anyway, we’re talking about everywhere from Asheville down to Bryson City and today we’re going to talk about what to buy. So what type of house are there, condos, what style, you know, all that fun stuff because there’s a lot of different things you can buy and I’ve got a great panel here to help me do that. Julie McCoy, the infamous would you like to introduce yourself really quick?

Julie McCoy [00:02:04]:
Hey Everybody, I’m Julie McCoy. I’ve been going to the North Carolina Smokies since I was a kid and I’m an agent on the short Term Shop team and glad to be here. Thanks.

Avery Carl [00:02:16]:
All right, Jay.

Jay Lawrence [00:02:17]:
Hey, I am Jay Lawrence. I am the short term shops agent out here in Western North Carolina or the Carolina Smokies, however you want to look at it. I am here to help help you in boots on the ground when you want to invest out this way.

Avery Carl [00:02:31]:
All right. And Brad Bircham, introduce yourself really quick.

Brad Burcham [00:02:35]:
Hey Avery. Brad Bircham, I’m a financial advisor In Tennessee. And I own. I think we talked about last time, I own in 50% of your markets. So there I’m kind of all over the place with short term shop. And I own in this market. I own in Murphy, North Carolina, which is at the. The most southern point of the North Carolina Smokies.

Avery Carl [00:02:55]:
All right. Yeah. 50% of our markets. That’s like 7. 7 markets. That’s pretty awesome.

Brad Burcham [00:03:01]:
I think so.

Jay Lawrence [00:03:01]:
Yep.

Brad Burcham [00:03:02]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:03:03]:
All right, so you’ve got a pretty good basis for comparison for all of the. The different places that we might talk about. So today we’re talking about what to buy. So there’s a lot of different styles out there. A lot of different. I mean, there’s cabins that are in developments, like resorts. There are cabins out on the side of the mountain that are off in the woods. So.

Avery Carl [00:03:23]:
So let’s start with that. Do we. Is it the best idea, return on investment wise to buy in a cabin development or buy something that’s a little more remote, like off in the woods?

Jay Lawrence [00:03:36]:
I think it’s really 50, 50 on that. You know, there are some cabin developments, especially in Maggie, that do absolutely phenomenal. And then the ones that are on the side of the mountain, those attract just a different kind of guest. Like they want to be in the woods and, you know, have the view and stuff. So it’s really 50, 50 on the CA.

Brad Burcham [00:03:55]:
Um, so in Murphy, it is definitely the single cabin on its own or very small development. You know, the. The largest developments in Murphy are 10 to 15 cabins. So I, I own in one that has a cluster of four cabins together that are on like 10 acres. So. But it feels like it’s on its own.

Avery Carl [00:04:16]:
What do you think, Julie?

Julie McCoy [00:04:17]:
Oh, I think. I mean, there’s also an in between too. It’s like there’s resort style where the, you know, cabins are pretty dense, but you can also have a neighborhood where things are more spread apart and on larger lots. So it’s not, it’s not off by itself, but. But you still got a sense of privacy and, and space out there. So I think there’s. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of options here. And, and I think, you know, we should also talk about like, okay, cabins are what you associate with the mountains, but, you know, is that the only thing that works out here? It’s what my family has, but, you know, it’s not the only thing.

Jay Lawrence [00:04:55]:
You know, cabins, you know, they are great. They are the mountain immersion and experience up here. But, you know, I don’t. I find that you Know, it typically doesn’t matter as long as the house is nice and you know, you can theme it up to be mountain and that kind of gives you the same kind of feeling when you’re up here. So.

Avery Carl [00:05:12]:
So does it need to be a cabin or can it be like a chalet style or. Or something else? Because in some mountain markets be a cabin and in some it doesn’t. So which one is. Is the case here?

Jay Lawrence [00:05:27]:
It doesn’t. The, the cabins are desirable for sure. You know, people do like them. But I mean I have past clients that have bought non cabins and they’re. You’re doing it extremely well. So it’s because nothing is cookie cutter up here in the availability. It’s just it location is really the key up here.

Avery Carl [00:05:44]:
Okay.

Brad Burcham [00:05:45]:
I would say in Murphy it’s. It’s probably mostly cabin. There are some cool farmhouse, you know, older farmhouses that have been renovated and updated that have, you know, creeks and barns and lots of land and that kind of thing. But otherwise there’s. There aren’t. To my knowledge there are no condo developments or anything like that in Murphy. It’s mostly single cabins and farmhouses.

Jay Lawrence [00:06:06]:
There’s not a lot of condos across the board. I only know of like two or three condo plexes like across western North Carolina, so.

Brad Burcham [00:06:13]:
Yep, that’s right.

Avery Carl [00:06:15]:
Okay, cool. So does not have to be a cabin that, that’s pretty interesting for, for a mountain market and I like that because it kind of. It opens up the. The gamut for everybody. So I think that’s pretty cool because on the Tennessee side you pretty much have to go cabin or chalet. You have to make it cabin if it’s not so. All right, let’s talk about areas. So I know some areas are going to be more expensive than others.

Avery Carl [00:06:38]:
We’ve kind of hit on this on some other episodes. So there is going to be some overlap on these. But. So let’s talk about luxury versus maybe something that might be for a newer like me when I first started was like scraping together my pennies. Where would each type of investor want to gravitate in terms of location?

Jay Lawrence [00:06:59]:
Well, let’s just use Maggie Valley for example. And that’s actually kind of a mix. I mean you’ve got, you know, the strip of Maggie for your new investors. And then you also have Eagles Nest, which is like a huge, you know, prestige community for rentals. And then you know, you’re going to typically around Asheville, you know, you’ll, you’ll pay a little higher out there too. That’s because that’s kind of the big city where all the business happens and stuff. But it’s really like I said, it’s kind of a mix like where you go peachog out to Whittier, Bryson City, you know there’s definitely stuff for everybody out there as well.

Brad Burcham [00:07:35]:
So I would say in, in Murphy it is definitely the, the lower purchase price, smaller cabin. That is attractive there. I, I’ve noticed a few, you know, 500,000 plus cabins up on top of a, a, a vista that has a massive view. But as a general rule of thumb it’s you know 250 to 400 is what’s happening in Murphy.

Julie McCoy [00:07:59]:
Oh that’s great. We don’t see that sort of price point in a lot of our markets and so that’s, that’s really exciting.

Brad Burcham [00:08:05]:
Yeah, that’s right.

Julie McCoy [00:08:07]:
Those tend to be like one to two bedrooms or what?

Brad Burcham [00:08:09]:
Yeah, my, mine’s a two bedroom so most I would say are one to three. But you very rarely see anything above three. But I would say the average standard.

Jay Lawrence [00:08:19]:
Is a two bedroom, you know and around here too. I mean like the average purchase price for 3 is around 350, 380. So.

Brad Burcham [00:08:28]:
Yeah, about the same.

Jay Lawrence [00:08:30]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:08:31]:
What about Maggie Valley? Julie, your parents in Maggie Valley is pretty luxury, right?

Julie McCoy [00:08:36]:
Yeah, we’re in a community up you know up above the well close to the Cataloochee ski area and there are some, you know it’s interesting. You drive up that mountain and there really is the mix that Jay’s talking about. As you’re on your way up there’s some super nice cabins or houses and then there’s you know, plenty that are more middle ground. A few, a few that are not particularly nice. And so you, you really get the view. You know you run the gamut on the way up that mountain. It’s about a three mile drive to get to my, my parents cabin and once you get to the top like yeah, our, our neighbors and ours is, is pretty high end and but yeah, even then it depends on when it was built. There’s a.

Julie McCoy [00:09:24]:
They are all in the particular area where we are. It’s mostly cabins. There’s a few like you know, more farmhousey I guess style. But we did a true log, you know like round logs that actually got imported from out west which I don’t recommend. They don’t like the climate on the east coast but we did a true log in the western style is more like akin to what you would see in Colorado or Utah but a lot of the cabins that are around us are the Appalachian style. So it’s more of a square log with chinking and that’s, that’s a little more traditional. They’re still super nice and you know, and good looking and that’s, that’s what we’ve seen.

Jay Lawrence [00:10:11]:
Yeah, that, that’s kind of what I call 1031 Mountain. You start at the bottom and then you 1031 your way to the top of the mountain.

Julie McCoy [00:10:18]:
I love that. But yeah, there, there’s a little cabin development right at the foot of the mountain and by the ghost town parking lot and Tony’s Tube World and all of that. There’s a little one there and just work your way to the top.

Jay Lawrence [00:10:32]:
Yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:10:32]:
A nice view from the top. I gotta tell you.

Jay Lawrence [00:10:35]:
It really is. It’s a great view. I’ve actually been up to her parents cabin and they have an amazing view.

Avery Carl [00:10:42]:
Sounds pretty awesome. I’d have to go up there and borrow Julie’s parents cabin.

Julie McCoy [00:10:47]:
You’re gonna have to do that sometime.

Avery Carl [00:10:50]:
All right, so we talked about a little bit about areas any before we move on from areas altogether. Anybody have any personal favorites? So Brad, you like Murphy because it’s affordable, the rentals are consistent. Anybody else have any personal favorites? I’ve. I really like Maggie Valley. I think it’s beautiful. But I do think it’s, it’s definitely on the higher end of pricing if I’m not mistaken. But anybody else have any? Like, oh, I always like to check this town when I get a new investor because it’s, it’s got cool stuff.

Jay Lawrence [00:11:19]:
For me, Bryson City. Just because on the tourism data, Swain county seems to pop up in the top three like consistently so. Swain county is where Bryson City is and part of Whittier. And just that whole little area there, it’s, it’s just very popular. So there’s lots of tourism going there. So things in the, in the price points aren’t like super high. So it’s just a great little area right there. And Maggie Valley also.

Jay Lawrence [00:11:45]:
I love Maggie Valley. It’s just small, it’s easy. You know, there’s one strip that runs through the whole place into Cherokee so accessibility is easy. But you know, they’re all great.

Avery Carl [00:11:57]:
Though a little off topic. Is the ghost town in the sky still for sale?

Julie McCoy [00:12:02]:
Generally it’s perpetually for sale. Been through. Want to buy it?

Jay Lawrence [00:12:06]:
Avery and they talked about reopening it too like several times. But it’s, you know, I wouldn’t trust the lift system at this point. It’s so old.

Avery Carl [00:12:15]:
It’s.

Julie McCoy [00:12:15]:
Yeah, it’s one of those that’s. It’s such a cool idea. But it’s. It’s changed hands a number of times and no one can ever seem to get it off the ground. Unfortunately.

Avery Carl [00:12:24]:
I went there as a kid when we lived in Atlanta. We took a little weekend trip up there. And I still have the picture. My parents still have the picture. They have a man, like a cameraman in a little hut when you’re halfway up the ski lift and he takes a picture of you on the ski lift and then it’s like your little tourist picture of you hanging out up in the sky on the ski lift. And I had a good time. From what I remember, I was probably about 5. So this is a long, long time ago.

Avery Carl [00:12:50]:
29 years ago. But it was, it was fun. I had a great time. And there was like a saloon show thing and a fake gunfight and it was fun. I’m surprised nobody’s able to make that work. That, that would be really fun for kids. Other than I would be a nervous wreck taking a five year old up that ski lift. But people do it.

Julie McCoy [00:13:12]:
The ski lift’s not for you. They also have the trolley car that will run up this like 45 degree angle to get up there. So there is a ground based mechanism to get up the mountain. I remember there’s a roller coaster, like swoop out over. Over the side of the mountain. So get a view.

Avery Carl [00:13:33]:
Yeah. So if you’re listening, this opportunity is probably available and we are happy to represent you to buy it.

Julie McCoy [00:13:39]:
Absolutely.

Jay Lawrence [00:13:41]:
Come in here and do something with it. Because it’s been there for. You know, I went once when I was a kid and I. I completely agree with you, Avery. I went to Anakeesta with my daughter when she was really little and I’m like on the left, like. Okay, don’t lean too much forward. There’s only a bar here, so.

Julie McCoy [00:13:56]:
But it would be cool to turn that into something that may be a little more anarchist than.

Jay Lawrence [00:14:00]:
Yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:14:01]:
Than amuse. Like straight amusement park. I don’t know.

Avery Carl [00:14:05]:
I don’t know.

Julie McCoy [00:14:06]:
We’re getting off topic. But yeah, it has so much.

Jay Lawrence [00:14:11]:
I wish if you jog down the road, there’s also Santa’s land too. So there was already a theme park here. And they kind of like they were so close to each other. I think one beat the other out.

Julie McCoy [00:14:21]:
Yeah. Santa’s land is still there, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. And there’s the, the zoo in Maggie Valley. The SOCO zoo.

Avery Carl [00:14:28]:
There was A zoo?

Jay Lawrence [00:14:29]:
Oh, yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:14:30]:
It’s not especially big zoo, but there.

Jay Lawrence [00:14:31]:
Is the SOCO zoo is best ones in Knoxville.

Julie McCoy [00:14:34]:
But yeah, well, yeah, yeah, okay. I mean, good to know.

Avery Carl [00:14:39]:
See, this is helping. I think this is helpful to people even though we’re off topic because you’re hearing about all the little things there are to do.

Julie McCoy [00:14:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Lawrence [00:14:47]:
Santa’s lands a petting zoo too.

Julie McCoy [00:14:50]:
And yeah, it’s like I, I personally obviously impartial to Maggie Valley because that’s where I’ve been going since I was 12. But which. God, that was. That’s 30 years now. Wow.

Avery Carl [00:15:02]:
Don’t think about the years.

Julie McCoy [00:15:06]:
Anyway. But I also want to give an honorable mention to Brevard and the surrounding.

Jay Lawrence [00:15:11]:
Area in Brevard, Pennsylvania County.

Julie McCoy [00:15:14]:
Yep, Transylvania County. It’s, it’s really pretty there. We’ve got a super cute downtown and I mean, I think, you know, a lot of, a lot of summer residents there. But I lived there very briefly right out of high school and it was, it’s a neat place and, and I think is worth taking a look at. And you’re only what, 30, 45 minutes outside of Asheville there.

Jay Lawrence [00:15:36]:
Yeah. And it attaches right to the Blue Ridge Parkway too. So I, if you, if you’re looking in this area with me, I always add Brevard on there for you as well because I do agree with Julie. It is a great place. It’s a very, you know, it’s its own little thing. And you know, you’re not far from the Blue Ridge, which is highly desirable for cruising.

Brad Burcham [00:15:56]:
Yes.

Avery Carl [00:15:58]:
Awesome. Okay, so done areas. Let’s talk about size. So is there a specific size that does any better than other sizes? I mean, I know this is a loaded question because typically smaller properties have higher occupancy rates, but larger properties tend to have a higher return on investment. So let’s talk about that really quick. What are we seeing in this market?

Jay Lawrence [00:16:21]:
Yes. You know, honestly, it appear really on size. It really depends on location, like I said earlier. So, you know, we’re not. It’s really. It is a loaded question. It’s hard to say really, because nothing’s cookie cutter. Everything’s, you know, location based up here really.

Jay Lawrence [00:16:40]:
But, you know, I’d say the bigger three bedrooms tend to do better because of the fact that, you know, this is a family, family place for tourism. You know, not a lot of, you know, single people coming in to stay. I mean, there definitely are, but it’s more family based. So the bigger. A little bit bigger. Do better. Brad, you have A two bedroom. And you said it does pretty well in Murphy.

Jay Lawrence [00:17:06]:
So what kind of clients do you see coming in there?

Brad Burcham [00:17:09]:
It’s about the same. It is definitely not a large cabin market in my opinion. There’s. There’s just not enough attractions. And you know, like in Pigeon Forge in Gatlinburg, you can literally have a one bedroom or a 25 bedroom and there’s a market for anywhere in between. And that’s. I would say that’s not the case in Murphy. I would say Murphy is a one to four to five bedroom max and preferably two or three.

Brad Burcham [00:17:33]:
Mine’s two. So it seems. I have a set of bunk beds and a king bed set up for family with a little gaming unit. So that. That’s the majority of. It’s either couples that come or want single families.

Julie McCoy [00:17:47]:
Well, and Jay, would you say that, you know, if you have a bigger cabin, it’s more important to be closer to town or further away from town. Is there any sort of correlation there? Like, or if you’re smaller, you should be closer or further, not so much on that.

Jay Lawrence [00:18:00]:
I do have a general golden rule. 20 minutes. Like you don’t want to be more than 20 minutes away to the attractions. At least in Maggie Valley. You know, as long like, you know, you could. You could have a cabin up J Creek and be fine because you’re so close to Maggie Valley and you’re so close to I40. So there’s the size. Really, you know, the size of the family doesn’t matter on that.

Julie McCoy [00:18:23]:
I think it takes 20 minutes to get up my mountain. You just got at least 10.

Jay Lawrence [00:18:28]:
Just build a helicopter pad down at ghost town and just bury people up to Cataloochee.

Julie McCoy [00:18:34]:
Oh, that would work.

Avery Carl [00:18:35]:
Okay, so we’ve gone over a lot of single families. So in some markets there are like a few, like a row of a few townhomes here and there. Or is there anything like that? Or is this really just strictly single family houses and cabins?

Jay Lawrence [00:18:50]:
For the most part is single family housing and cabins. There are some spots where there are rows of community houses, but they’re. They’re not like your typical like townhouse neighborhood where they’re just stacked on top of each other and like right next to each other. They will be right next to each other, but the average size of lots here is about an acre or so. So I mean you’ll see them, but they’re just spread out. There are a couple condo plexes. I know there’s a couple in Lake Alaska and I think there’s one in Maggie, but that’s about it. Like everything’s just scattered.

Brad Burcham [00:19:22]:
Same in Murphy. It’s all single family cabins and houses.

Avery Carl [00:19:26]:
All right, cool. So are these mostly what I call grandma cabins? So what I mean by that is, like, are they. Most of the things that hit the market, are they coming fully furnished? Is it kind of grandma still, or are people starting to update decor to be more modern? How much of that are we seeing?

Jay Lawrence [00:19:43]:
There’s not a whole lot of granny cabins out there. And one of the popular things right now is to make it look like a log cabin. A lot of these places will get faux. Faux logs, siding put on the side so it looks like a cabin. So inside it’s modern, you know, rustic. And on the outside it’s. It’s cabin looking. So there’s definitely been some granny cabins that I’ve seen that are, you know, that still have the Franklin stoves and stuff in them.

Jay Lawrence [00:20:09]:
And, you know, but I see a lot of people do have been updating stuff like that. So you really just don’t see a whole lot of the. The granny cabins by themselves. And you do see, you know, often enough you’ll find stuff fully furnished. Especially if it was, you know, somebody selling off their str, they usually will sell that with it.

Brad Burcham [00:20:29]:
In Murphy, it’s. It. I would say it’s a 50, 50 mix of new construction and older. And by older, I mean, you know, less than 20 years. There’s very little that was built unless it’s one of those farmhouses that’s been renovated. Most of the, what I would call tradition, more traditional cabins have been built in the last 15 years in Murphy. And I’m. I’m almost always new construction because I’m the least handy person on the planet.

Brad Burcham [00:20:54]:
So I. That. I think that’s been tested probably, but I’m definitely the least handy person out there. So I. I tend to lean towards new construction. So there’s plenty of that. But still, the purchase price on new construction is. Is reasonable.

Brad Burcham [00:21:09]:
And one difference here that’s not that way in the Smokies in Pigeon Forge is that it does not come furnished, which usually even new construction in the Smokies comes furnished. So I had to furnish it and put the decor in and such.

Jay Lawrence [00:21:22]:
Yeah, I guess that’s the. The price you pay for it being more reasonable.

Brad Burcham [00:21:27]:
That’s right. Yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:21:28]:
Yeah.

Brad Burcham [00:21:29]:
2285 purchase price. I think I can. I can probably.

Jay Lawrence [00:21:32]:
Can’t. Can’t beat that with the stick.

Julie McCoy [00:21:34]:
Happily, your wife is very good at that.

Brad Burcham [00:21:37]:
Yeah, she, they. I think she can figure it out probably.

Avery Carl [00:21:45]:
Okay. So we’ve established some areas, we’ve established that most everything single family kind of doesn’t matter what style. Not a lot of grandma cabins. People are starting to kind of update things and, and you’re not having to do, you know, full refurnishing of properties necessarily. Maybe just a little bit of a refresh. So let’s talk about views. So do I have to have a long range mountain view to do well? Do wooded views do okay also? What’s the story there?

Jay Lawrence [00:22:14]:
Yeah, they. Okay, so up here I like to say we have three types of views. You know, you have your, your up in the air long view, you know, where you can see the mountains and stuff. And we also, you know, because we have a valley, Maggie Valley. You know, if you have that openness where you can look up the mountains, that’s the low view. And then you do have the out in the woods view where you don’t necessarily have a view of the mountains, but you got a very nice naturescape and stuff there. So those are kind of the, those all do well. So having a big long view up in the air doesn’t necessarily, you know, it’s not going to kill you if you get one with a low view or a nature view.

Jay Lawrence [00:22:52]:
It just depends on the guest that’s looking at it.

Brad Burcham [00:22:56]:
Murphy is similar. It’s minor. I think you go for privacy minor on the privacy side of things. So I guess that’s called a nature view, as Jay said. But I would say the majority of them are the nature privacy. There’s a few that have made it up to the top of the mountains, but because there hasn’t been as much development in Murphy, they just have money to go all the way up to the top of the mountain yet because there’s plenty of land down on the, on the lower elevations. So there’s two new, newer developments that have started going up the, the mountains that have views, but the vast majority are the, the nature slash looking at a pasture view.

Julie McCoy [00:23:36]:
Yeah, I would say the, the downside of having that high view like Jay’s talking about is you got to get up there to see it. And there are plenty of people who are not comfortable doing that. So. So yeah, it’s a little bit of a trade off.

Jay Lawrence [00:23:50]:
Yeah. And, and that’s one thing that doesn’t work up here is, you know, if you have a road that’s completely craptacular, you know, you’re, it’s bad. It’s not necessarily meaning that you’re going to do bad if you have a. But you’ll. You’ll definitely want to put in your listing that you need four wheel drive to get up there. But I’m gonna tell you right now, a lot of our tourism’s from Florida and people in Florida don’t have four wheel drives because they don’t need it. So.

Julie McCoy [00:24:15]:
Or all weather tires or anything.

Jay Lawrence [00:24:17]:
Yeah, yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:24:18]:
Summer tires all year round.

Jay Lawrence [00:24:20]:
And what I can make up in a four cylinder, you know, your average person’s not gonna be able to do because I know how to drive in the mountains. So you know that, that can be tricky. And that’s what the. Bit like Julia’s saying, that’s one of the drawbacks to the long views.

Avery Carl [00:24:35]:
You want the view, you got to go up the mountain. So what other amenities are good to have that you might. I’m trying to think of if there’s anything that would be something you couldn’t add later. But I guess really views are the only things that you can’t add later unless you cut trees. What other amenities are good to have in this market? What works well? Anything doesn’t work well.

Jay Lawrence [00:24:55]:
Hot tubs, especially if you have a long view and a hot tub on the deck. Those are great. You know, it doesn’t matter what kind of view, though. A hot tub does go really well up here, just because when it does get chilly, you know, getting in there and getting warm. The gaming rooms have started to catch on a lot too. So that does work. It’s starting to work. I’m starting to see a lot more of those in cabins up here, But I can’t think of any other specific ones and I’ll let somebody else go.

Jay Lawrence [00:25:27]:
Julie, do you know anything?

Julie McCoy [00:25:28]:
Well, I was just thinking something that not every cabin might have or might even need, depending on your elevation, is air conditioning. We do not have central air. We don’t have an air conditioning unit at all in our cabin in Maggie Valley. Now, our elevation on the mountain is about a mile high. We’re about 5,200ft up there. And there’s maybe just a couple of weeks where we ever even want it because the temperature stays so mild. There’s heat, obviously, but there’s not. There’s not a central air unit.

Julie McCoy [00:26:02]:
So that seems like an obvious thing that every property should have or at least to my mind. But if you run into something in the mountains that doesn’t have air, don’t freak out. That might be by design and you may not really need it, you know.

Jay Lawrence [00:26:19]:
And Honestly, I think she’s right. It doesn’t usually get above 85 here in the summertime. I mean, last year was an exception. It was unusually hot. But you know what I find is just throw a mini split in there. It’s adequate for up here, and it’s significantly cheaper than home. Whole H vac system. So, you know, and it takes care of your heating and cooling, and then it’s adequate in the mountains.

Julie McCoy [00:26:41]:
Yeah.

Jay Lawrence [00:26:41]:
Especially when you’re up high.

Julie McCoy [00:26:43]:
Yeah. Or if there’s just a couple of weeks in the year where you don’t need us. Like, we would just throw open the windows and get a breeze, and that was always totally fine for the few times when it was warm enough. Honestly, a lot of times I’d just wear a jacket. Yeah, we have the windows open.

Avery Carl [00:26:59]:
No way. I need air circulation at all times. I don’t care what the temperature is outside. I cannot have the air inside be still. It makes me. I swear it. I don’t know. It makes everything smell.

Avery Carl [00:27:12]:
Yeah. It makes me feel heavy and like, human.

Julie McCoy [00:27:15]:
Open a window, Avery.

Avery Carl [00:27:16]:
I don’t. But I. I. It’s way too hard to regulate my temperature with outdoor air. I need complete control. I get it.

Julie McCoy [00:27:26]:
Ceiling fan.

Avery Carl [00:27:28]:
That doesn’t work either. I need to be able to say 70 degrees exactly.

Jay Lawrence [00:27:32]:
Well, you can get one with an old school attic fan and open a window. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a house that an attic fan’s running, but it’s just like being outside on top of the mountain breeze kind of thing. It’s. It’s awesome.

Avery Carl [00:27:44]:
And then it makes all the. All the doors slam.

Jay Lawrence [00:27:46]:
Yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:27:47]:
Yep.

Jay Lawrence [00:27:48]:
When you walk outside and you’re always angry because that’s the way the door slammed.

Avery Carl [00:27:53]:
Yeah. Dude, it. We. When we moved. I was probably six. We moved from Atlanta to Starkville, Mississippi, after my dad finished chiropractic school, and we were renting a house that had an attic fan, and I didn’t know what it was, and I just hit the. The switch, and all the doors in the house started slamming, and I thought it was haunted, and I was, like, so terrified.

Jay Lawrence [00:28:15]:
That’s a great story on an attic fan.

Avery Carl [00:28:18]:
Yeah. So, anyway, any other amenities? Fire pits. Big out there. I hate fire pits, but a lot of people love those.

Jay Lawrence [00:28:25]:
Just about every. Every. Every unit here that’s an STR has.

Brad Burcham [00:28:30]:
A fire pit, so outdoor space and hot tub and flat. Flat driveway. My. My requirement was a flat driveway. That’s the best amenity of all.

Avery Carl [00:28:41]:
Did you have a view, Brad? This.

Brad Burcham [00:28:43]:
No, mine’s a. Mine’s a privacy nature. It’s on about two acres. So it’s, you know, you’re sitting on the back porch with the hot tub looking at trees for hundreds of feet. Can’t see another cabin. So that’s awesome.

Avery Carl [00:28:56]:
I like that.

Jay Lawrence [00:28:57]:
That’s pretty.

Avery Carl [00:28:58]:
Okay, let’s talk about what doesn’t work. Is there anything you’ve seen that explicitly does not work in this market?

Jay Lawrence [00:29:07]:
You know, so far, like, you know, like things that are way up the roads that are bad, those kind of don’t work. I don’t usually recommend those if, if the. The driveway is just impossible. But since we have such a mix like there it just again location. There’s nothing that comes to mind specifically that doesn’t work at this point. Know I’m still compiling my list daily so.

Julie McCoy [00:29:33]:
So a brick rancher would work just, you know, just as well or almost as well as a cabin or chalet.

Jay Lawrence [00:29:38]:
It depends on how you set it up so. And where it’s at location.

Brad Burcham [00:29:43]:
So in Murphy, I would say that’s not the case. I would say in Murphy it’s definitely cabin slash farmhouse, remodeled farm. There. There’s several really cool old farmhouses that have been modernized inside but. But still have the old school look on the outside. Those are super popular. I’m actually gonna put that on my list for next probably in Murphy because it. There’s very few of them and they’re really cool.

Brad Burcham [00:30:06]:
But there’s several traditional developments that I. I would say they probably would not work as well on the Murphy side.

Julie McCoy [00:30:14]:
I guess that makes sense. Kind of vibe of whatever community you’re closest to. And Murphy is very much like a small town in the mountains. So I can see that lending itself more than if you’re on the outskirts of Asheville.

Brad Burcham [00:30:27]:
That’s right.

Julie McCoy [00:30:28]:
Something.

Brad Burcham [00:30:29]:
Yeah.

Julie McCoy [00:30:29]:
Yeah.

Jay Lawrence [00:30:31]:
I’ll add something to that though. Modular and mobile. Those typically don’t do as well as others as well. And we do have a lot of modulars up here because Clayton Homes has a very big presence up here. So you’ll see them. I mean they’re nice, they’re great. But you know, the consumer doesn’t see it that way so. And definitely not trailers.

Jay Lawrence [00:30:51]:
I don’t think they do well. Now on the other hand, I’ve seen people that have set up RV parks that would just, you know, they have the RV park. RV parks do really well up here. I’ve seen one person that just parked a bunch of RVs that don’t work and short term Rent them out. And they do. Okay.

Julie McCoy [00:31:08]:
So, yeah, when you say they don’t work, you mean, like, they just won’t drive?

Jay Lawrence [00:31:12]:
They don’t run. I mean, everything’s functional inside that, you.

Julie McCoy [00:31:15]:
Know, say, presumably the plumbing still works, right?

Jay Lawrence [00:31:19]:
No, it. It’s just that where it driven to, that’s its final resting place.

Julie McCoy [00:31:24]:
So RV parks are like gold mines, though. I mean, if you can get one.

Jay Lawrence [00:31:28]:
They’re really hard to get, but they’re on my radar. If I ever see one pop up, it’s mine.

Julie McCoy [00:31:33]:
Yep.

Avery Carl [00:31:34]:
Well, everybody and their mom’s trying to, like, be the. I’m the RV park influencer, and I’m like, I’m sick of it. I’ll wait for everybody to find something else to move on to before I get one. I just like it because, like, we use them a lot when we’re out in the motorhome. I started booking our yearly motorhome trip last night. And, I mean, some of them are really nice and, like, they have playgrounds and all this stuff. And I just had no idea until we started doing it that that was such an industry and subculture even. Everybody’s got their Instagram, their travel Instagram on the back of their motorhomes and their RVs, and I would never do that.

Avery Carl [00:32:15]:
That I don’t want to be known. But it’s still. It’s cool. And most people, when you go look at it, because I always go look at them, I’m like, where these people been? It’s like they posted twice two years ago and never posted again.

Jay Lawrence [00:32:26]:
Yeah, there’s a really, really big, big one in Maggie Valley. They actually started building tiny homes in there. Tiny homes surprisingly do okay up here too. I mean, it’s just kind of, you know, the. This place has gone crazy over tiny home. So I know there’s a couple little lots that somebody. You know, people have set up three, and, you know, as far as I know, just anime method in them. They’re doing well.

Avery Carl [00:32:52]:
So, yeah, I’m so tired of the tiny home thing. I’m just grumpy today. Just don’t listen to me. But yeah, I’m like, can we stop with the tiny homes? Can we stop with that? Just stop. Just stay in a house. Like a small house. It does. You’re not.

Avery Carl [00:33:06]:
You’re not like. Or just get a. Just get a motorhome. Just get a. They. I don’t know if you guys. Guys know this cool, Avery, but they invented campers. Like, you have independently come to the idea of a camper, but it’s much more bulky and difficult to use.

Jay Lawrence [00:33:21]:
Thick built camper.

Julie McCoy [00:33:23]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:33:24]:
No, you’re not.

Julie McCoy [00:33:25]:
I mean, for me, a tiny house, like I get, I get like the curb appeal of it and stuff and the concept that it’s more inexpensive than a house. But there’s so many issues relating to like finding a place of land that you can, you know, that you are allowed to, to park it on. You know, what about your water and septic, like, you know, your water and sewer, it needs to be tied into something because you are presumably not hauling it off to dump tanks all the time. And you know, so your infrastructure still needs to be there. But also you’re not getting the tax advantages or you know, getting the appreciation value that you would with a foundation built home. So that, you know, that combined with just logistics of like all the particular small things that you have to do to make it like really creative and cool seems like a lot of things to break that may not be easy to fix because they’re not standard.

Avery Carl [00:34:17]:
Yeah, it’s just basically a lot of work for something that’s completely unusable just for the sake of your own virtue. Signaling for like, look how small my carbon footprint is. Basically.

Jay Lawrence [00:34:27]:
Yeah, it’s like trying to find anyway for a Ford Galaxy.

Avery Carl [00:34:31]:
Yeah, just get a camper. They were made to be hauled around. There are specific RV parks exactly for that. And it’s easy. They were made to be put there. You’re not. So anyway, that’s fine. I’m tired of tiny homes.

Jay Lawrence [00:34:45]:
There’s a couple of. And there’s also a couple of RV parks up here that you just, you buy the lot and you just pull your RV up and it’s got its own cabana and like sink and everything like that. You just like shut it up when you leave. And you know, it’s kind of like the extension of your RV vacationing.

Brad Burcham [00:35:02]:
So.

Avery Carl [00:35:02]:
Yeah, we stayed in one last year that had a fenced in yard for the dogs.

Jay Lawrence [00:35:07]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:35:08]:
Yeah, it was cool.

Julie McCoy [00:35:08]:
Pretty cool.

Avery Carl [00:35:09]:
That was in Wyoming. But yeah, it was awesome. Anyway, off topic again, really with just the list of things that annoy me.

Jay Lawrence [00:35:17]:
Tiny homes. Got it.

Avery Carl [00:35:20]:
Tiny homes are annoying.

Jay Lawrence [00:35:22]:
And I’m gonna start sending you listings for tiny homes here.

Avery Carl [00:35:27]:
All right. So really nothing that does not work. Most things can be workable if you do them right. Of course, you can’t just buy something and, and half asset and slap it up on Airbnb and make money. You do have to pay attention, make sure that your decor is what it needs to be, make sure. Your furnishing is what it needs to be and properly manage it and then you’re probably going to be in good shape. Right guys?

Jay Lawrence [00:35:49]:
That’s right. And I think we’ll. We’ll kind of go over that more in the the team episode and listening to your agent and stuff and how to the. You know what the best device for that is and we’ll guide you.

Avery Carl [00:35:59]:
Yeah, absolutely. Was there anything else that we didn’t go over that you guys are like, oh man, we need to make sure everybody hears this before they run off and invest in this market?

Jay Lawrence [00:36:07]:
No. Western North Carolina is awesome. Come on.

Brad Burcham [00:36:12]:
One thing I think that’s important to note about Murphy, this is just specific to Murphy, but the geographic location of that. I think a lot of times it’s confusing that it’s so close to Blue Ridge and the whitewater rafting and the things where Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama all come together. I’m sorry, North Carolina all come together. Just because it says North Carolina. It feels like it’s further away from those things when it’s really not. And I truly believe that some of the new development in Murphy is a result of the overcrowding of Blue Ridge or the popularity of Blue Ridge. It has spilled over into Murphy. That’s the next most logical location for it to go to.

Brad Burcham [00:36:51]:
To further up into the mountains. It’s the next small town. So a lot of people just don’t realize that. So I think there’s a tremendous upside potential in Murphy, which is why I’m there. But you can still purchase what you used to be able to purchase in Blue Ridge eight or 10 years ago. You can now do that in Murphy today. And hopefully the thought obviously is that eight or ten years from now we’re saying the same thing about Murphy that it is now what Blue Ridge is today. Yeah, that’s my hope or my plan.

Jay Lawrence [00:37:19]:
Brad, you’re just gonna have me going over to Murphy now, aren’t you? In. You know, it’s awesome too, from this side to get the Murphy. I think the only way to get there is through the Nantahala Gorge. And it’s absolutely a beautiful drive. Like, it’s stunning to go through there because you follow the river the whole way.

Brad Burcham [00:37:38]:
Pretty much my cabin is just as close in Murphy. It’s just as close to go to the Ecoe whitewater rafting center as it is from Blue Ridge. It’s 25 minutes. It’s same thing as Blue Ridge. So. So just everybody needs to know that, that geographically it’s a great Location.

Julie McCoy [00:37:53]:
Well, and I learned something new in our conversation before we started recording, which is that there’s a casino in Murphy as well. I thought the only one out there.

Jay Lawrence [00:38:01]:
I did not know about that.

Brad Burcham [00:38:02]:
Yeah, it’s actually a Harris. We. We actually call it Harris Cherokee Casino. We say so. When you said Cherokee Casino, that made me think that we were talking about the same one. I didn’t realize there was one on further up.

Jay Lawrence [00:38:12]:
So it’s also called Harris, so that’s what got me, too. I. I didn’t realize we had one over in Murphy.

Julie McCoy [00:38:18]:
Yeah, they’re both Cherokee nations, so. So, yeah, I understand where the confusion came from, but, yeah, you’re. You’re pointing out some really cool things about the location of Murphy. You’ve got access to a wide variety of. Of key attractions in western North Carolina.

Brad Burcham [00:38:33]:
It feels overlooked just because of Blue. You know, Blue Ridge kind of dwarfs that whole area, but it’s almost like a suburb of Blue Ridge. You know, you can get to downtown Blue Ridge in 21 or 22 minutes from my cabin. So it’s. It’s definitely a great location.

Jay Lawrence [00:38:48]:
Yeah, well, now it’s. It’s great information, too, because up until this point, I don’t know much about the Georgia side and the market over there. But, you know, as, you know, just my experiences going out to Murphy, doing mortgage signings, I was like, this is out in the middle of nowhere. So I, you know, I just kind of assumed that I didn’t, you know, I mean, since it’s two hours away, I don’t pay, like, super big attention. But now it’s on my radar. So we’re gonna try to get some stuff going out there. There.

Brad Burcham [00:39:13]:
It’s a great location.

Julie McCoy [00:39:14]:
Brad, do you want to be a Murphy agent?

Brad Burcham [00:39:17]:
No, I’m good. My. My hands are full. I just got to figure out where Avery’s going next. I gotta follow Avery. So wherever Avery’s going next, I got. That’s my strategy. If Avery opens an office, I’m buying some kind of real estate there.

Julie McCoy [00:39:34]:
Stay tuned, Stay tuned.

Jay Lawrence [00:39:36]:
It’s gonna get the holy trinity in every market.

Avery Carl [00:39:42]:
All right, well, thank you guys so much for your time and for coming on today. Guys, if you want to buy a cabin in Murphy, Brad is not our agent. If you want to buy a cabin in. Anywhere in this market with Jay, email us at agents at the short term shop dot com. Or if you just have more general questions that you want answered, you can join us every Thursday for a live Q and A. You can register for that@strquestions.com thanks guys.

Jay Lawrence [00:40:07]:
Take care.

Brad Burcham [00:40:08]:
It.