Where to Buy a short term rental on the Emerald Coast: Destin, 30A, or Panama City Beach (Episode 2 of 10)

Avery Carl [00:00:03]:
What’s up, guys? It’s Avery Carl from the short term show doing the intro for the panhandle of Florida. We are doing a ten episode deep dive on two markets here, both the Emerald coast and the forgotten coasts of Florida, which basically makes up the entire Florida panhandle. So ten episode deep dive here. We are going to add quarterly updates, so make sure you hit that subscribe button. We also have some supplemental materials for you guys on our website. So anything you need to know about current short term rental property pricing in terms of how much it costs to buy a property in these markets, you can find that on our website@theshorttermshop.com, dot. You can also find current air DNA income data thanks to our friends over at, you guessed it, AirDna. And we’ve got all that for you guys.

Avery Carl [00:00:50]:
So that you can listen to this at any point in time and go find live pricing and live income data. Also, if you guys want to buy a short term rental investment with a short term shop agent on the emerald or forgotten coast, you can just email us@agentshorttermshop.com and we will get you hooked up. These are two of my very favorite beach markets, by the way. I’ve chosen to live in the Emerald Coast. I also invest in the Emerald and Forgotten coast, so very near and dear to my heart. Also, if you guys just have more questions and you want to chat about short term rentals, we’ve created an amazing community over on Facebook with over 50,000 short term rental investors just talking shop all day. It’s got the same title as my book. It’s called short term rental, long term wealth.

Avery Carl [00:01:33]:
So head over there to chat more about short term rentals. And if you want to chat live on Zoom, we’ve got a call every Thursday that you can join@strquestions.com happy investing, y’all. Hey guys, welcome back to the short term show, special episodes. This time we are doing the Forgotten coast and Emerald. Emerald coast or Emerald coast and forgotten coast. I guess Emerald coast is bigger, so we should call say that one first. Anyway, whatever, doesn’t matter. We’re talking about everywhere between what January calls, between the Colas, so between Pensacola and Appalachicola, basically the entire Florida Panhandle, two markets that we cover.

Avery Carl [00:02:16]:
We’re going to talk about what to buy today. We’re going to break down the different areas and talk about what to buy there. And we have a really fun panel today of short term shop agents in the different markets. So we’ll start with Pete, because he’s first on my screen. How’s it going, Pete? You want to introduce yourself really quick?

Pete Appezatto [00:02:32]:
Yes. How you doing? How’s everyone? This is Pete Appizato. I cover the desk from, basically from Destin to Panama City beach market. Happy to be here and happy to be on this team.

Avery Carl [00:02:45]:
We’re happy to have you. And next we have January Johnson. Jan, you want to introduce yourself?

January Johnson [00:02:51]:
Hello, January Johnson. I sell everything between Panama City beach and basically Navarre Beach. I live in Panama City, and I’m a Panama City native, and I’m the longest running Airbnb host in the city of Panama City. I’m old here. I’ve been doing this for nine years. But, yeah, so that’s, that’s my market. That’s what I do.

Avery Carl [00:03:12]:
All right, awesome. And next we have Austin Lewis. Austin, introduce yourself.

Austin Lewis [00:03:16]:
Hey. Hey. What’s up, party people? So I am a Pensacola born native. I basically cover from the Alabama state line, so Purito Key, and then all the way over to Fort Walton beach and anything in between, which would be Pensacola beach and Navarre beach.

Avery Carl [00:03:35]:
Awesome. And I am going to be covering most of the stuff on the forgotten coast today. So that is everywhere from just east of Panama City. So from where January lives, all the way over to Appalachicola. So the main areas there are Mexico Beach, Port St. Joe, St. George island, and Cape San blast. And I’ll break those down a little bit for you guys here in a minute.

Avery Carl [00:04:01]:
So first, what we’re going to do is talk about the different areas, like where if you’re a new investor and you’re thinking, I want to buy somewhere on the Florida Panhandle, because basically the entire Florida panhandle is very, very short term rental friendly, very short term rental dependent. Honestly, there’s not a lot of hotel presence on the panhandle, and there’s a lot of tourism. A lot of tourism for decades, I always say. My grandmother has been renting vacation rentals in Destin since 1937. So very, very old, mature, established vacation rental area. Like I said, not a lot of hotels, but there are a lot of tourism. So the entire, I would say, venture to say the entire economy of the panhandle does depend on vacation rentals because all of the rest of the tourist attractions wouldn’t exist if there was nowhere for these tourists to stay. We do have what I would argue are the most beautiful beaches in the continental us.

Avery Carl [00:05:01]:
There are some people that would argue you need to go further south, but it’s not as pretty there. I can tell you that right now, we’re very proud of our beaches here. So anyway, we’re going to kind of break it down for the different little markets, little micro markets within the Emerald coast and forgotten coast. So we’ll start with Austin. We’ll go. We’ll start at the Alabama state line. So, Austin, tell us a little bit about who’s visiting Navarre, Pensacola, Purdido Key, and what the different attractions are there, because those are kind of three little micro markets, and they’re all a little bit different.

Austin Lewis [00:05:33]:
Absolutely. So we get a lot of older people, families, things like that. We’re a very laid back market. There’s not a lot of the partying going, honestly, there’s not a lot to do besides go to the beach. But that’s why we get the visitors that we do. I compare it to Anna Maria island. Some people kind of can, can pick up on that. There’s just no commercialization, and there’s not a McDonald’s on every corner.

Austin Lewis [00:06:02]:
And that’s kind of what people come here looking for between the areas. I mean, there’s. There’s definitely things that bring in tourism. We’ve got the Blue Angels. Those are native here. They practice two or three times a week. They got big air shows. We got the fireworks on the beach, like, you know, a lot of beaches do.

Austin Lewis [00:06:21]:
We’ve got a giant military base that adds, you know, a whole the coast through Florida. There’s a lot of military bases, but we’ve got a Pensacola Nas, which is one of the biggest navy bases there is. So we get a lot of graduates from there. So families come down to visit, people graduating. But as a whole, it’s, you know, really just people coming to see the pristine beaches. Perdido Key is going to be pretty condo oriented. There’s a lot of condos over there. But if you get over towards Pensacola Beach, Navarre beach, what’s really cool about that is it’s actually federally owned, so the, the government essentially protects the beaches and the pristineness of them.

Austin Lewis [00:07:06]:
There’s a land lease fee involved in that, which we can get into detail later on, but there’s a lot of national seashore. So basically people can go out there and really spread out, and it gives the illusion of having a private beach.

Avery Carl [00:07:23]:
Awesome. And what area would you say of that part of the Emerald coast is most affordable versus, um, most expensive between Navarro Perdito and Pensacola beach.

Austin Lewis [00:07:38]:
So it’s going to depend on the proximate to the beach and what kind of property you get in. Um, condos we can get you into for as low as around 250,000. And that’s kind of across the board. Uh, no matter where you buy, um, again, Perdito key is going to have the most condos, but, um, condos around 250 at the moment. You know, that’s always changing. But, um, of course, you got to have 20% down with a condo. Single family homes, you’re going to look at around a 600 to 650 entry price. I would say Navarre is probably the most expensive.

Austin Lewis [00:08:11]:
If you, you know, gun to my head, had to, had to pick. Just because it’s such a small area. The homes over there appreciate like crazy just because there’s not a lot of them. The whole Navarre beach area is only about 29 sq. Mi. And the island that it’s on average is about 2000 foot wide from the sound side to the gulf side. So, you know, you’ve got a really small area that those short term, the popular properties are in. So there’s a lot of drive and demand for those properties.

Avery Carl [00:08:45]:
Awesome. Thank you very much. So now we’ll scoot over to the Fort Walton slash destined 30 a area. So this will be a mix of Pete and January, so whoever wants to start there can do that. But then, Jan, we’re going to move on to Panama City proper, and 38 after, I mean, sorry, I already said 30 year. Whatever. Both of you first.

January Johnson [00:09:07]:
Pete can go first.

Pete Appezatto [00:09:09]:
Yeah. So the Fort Walton area is really cool. It’s along this really. The short term rentals kind of are in one pocket around Okaloosa island. Once you go over the bridge, I wouldn’t say it’s really a short term rental zone. Okaloosa island is a really cool stretch of property. I forget how many miles it is. Probably about 4 miles or so.

Pete Appezatto [00:09:28]:
Four or 5 miles. And it’s just kind of a sliver of land. But once you get towards the end, you go, you make a left. I forget which street it is, but it takes you back down towards a lot of beachfront condos and a lot of single family homes. Really cool stretch of land is beautiful. There’s a lot of tourist things along there, like the boardwalk and a lot of other sort of properties on either side of the road. And then as you make your way down more towards Destin, I would say, because I live in Destin, I’m very particular to Destin. I love Destin.

Pete Appezatto [00:10:08]:
It’s just, it has a mixture of everything. It’s commercialized, but it also has the small town beach feel on the opposite side of 98. So you kind of get everything you want. You could stay in Destin, and you really don’t have to leave Destiny.

Avery Carl [00:10:28]:
I totally agree with that. And let’s. Let’s hit on a couple little areas inside of Destin. So there are a few. I mean, all of Destin is good for short term rentals as long as you are south of Highway 98. So Highway 98 is the main road that runs through the middle of really all of these towns. You want to stay south of 98? You do. These are not areas where it’s going to work for your guests to have to drive to the beach across the highway.

Avery Carl [00:10:55]:
Uh, and actually, in Destin, you’re not allowed to short term rent north of 98. But for all intents and purposes, like the entire Florida panhandle, I would say you want to be south of 98, uh, for. For the optimal renting. So anyway, best areas inside of destin proper. I really like holiday isle. It’s kind of almost like a little peninsula. Uh, there’s some condos, there’s single families. Uh, that’s the only place in destin where you can get properties with a dock or a boat slip.

Avery Carl [00:11:28]:
Uh, because it’s not on the bay, it’s on the Destin harbor, but the beach is right there, too. So, uh, I love holiday island. It’s a cool little area. And then the. One of the best areas for short term rentals in destin is going to be an area called crystal beach. Uh, not to be mixed up with crystal Beach, Texas. It’s a neighborhood in destin called Crystal beach. Uh, that’s where I own mine.

Avery Carl [00:11:49]:
That one is actually, I think, the oldest, like, short term rental specific neighborhood. And I say neighborhood. It doesn’t have an hoa. It’s. But everything is walkable to the beach. Mostly single families. There are a few little condo buildings. So anyway, those are my.

Avery Carl [00:12:05]:
That’s my two favorite areas in destined to buy.

Pete Appezatto [00:12:09]:
Absolutely. So holiday Isle has its own kind of feel. Like you said, it’s like a little peninsula. Really cool properties over there, some beachfront condos, and also several, like, beachfront townhome communities. I mean, Bayfront, I should say. They have, like you said, harbor front. Harborfront. Sorry.

Avery Carl [00:12:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Pete Appezatto [00:12:29]:
So just sold one last week, and they have two boat docks right out. Really cool, interesting, unique property. I think she’s going to kill it with it. But, yeah, Crystal beach, I love that area. That’s where you really have that beach vibe. So, you know, the homes are walking distance to the beach. You cross the street and you’re right on some of the most beautiful beaches. Really in the country.

Pete Appezatto [00:12:55]:
I grew up going to the Jersey shore, and those are nothing compared to here. So I, once I moved here, I totally agree. I think the beaches here are more beautiful than south Florida.

Avery Carl [00:13:09]:
I would agree with that. And also back to holiday aisle. The cool thing about holiday isle is that, so you’re on the harbor and there’s tons of bars right on the other side of the harbor and restaurants, and they have the harbor walk, and there is something called the destined water taxi that will come pick you up from your boat slip and take you to the other side so you can go eat and drink and do all kinds of fun stuff and then come back without having to get into the bad highway 98 traffic, which that’s also why I like holiday, because there’s a few restaurants on it, so you don’t have to get out into 98 traffic, traffic to, uh, to go eat and everything. So that’s pretty cool thing. That’s, um, specific to holiday aisle. But like Pete said, uh, I think in terms of single families, crystal beach, it is going to be the best bang for your buck. There are other areas of destin that have great, beautiful single families, too, but they’re going to be a little more expensive in most cases. They’re inside hoas.

Avery Carl [00:14:02]:
Um, yeah. All right, so I think that’s pretty good on Destin. Let’s scoot over to Miramar beach. So Miramar beach is actually in Walton county. It’s right over the line from you. If driving through, you wouldn’t know that you’ve left Destin and entered Miramar beach. Yeah, I didn’t even know Miramar beach was a separate town until I was well into my twenties. So a very similar vibe to Destin.

Avery Carl [00:14:26]:
And again, that is it. I know it’s how to spell it, but I always try to not say it out loud. Frangista. Or is it Frangista Beach?

Pete Appezatto [00:14:34]:
I think it’s Frangista beach. Really beautiful homes. Yeah, yeah. But you’re right, like, driving along, riding along, scenic 98, you don’t really know. Unless there’s one sign actually, that says entering Walton county, unless you know where that is, you wouldn’t know the difference. I bike ride on there pretty much every day, so I see it every day, but there’s no difference in vibe. Like, the homes are still just beautiful. The beaches, no matter where you are in this panhandle, the beaches are just as gorgeous from west to east.

Avery Carl [00:15:06]:
Yeah, I agree with that. And again, Frangista beach, really similar to me to Crystal beach in Destin. There’s a lot of different types of single family homes, all walkable to the beach. There’s, of course, plenty of condo and townhome buildings over there, too, but it’s just a different county. So the process for getting a short term rental permit is a little bit different, but that’s really the only difference.

Pete Appezatto [00:15:28]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:15:29]:
All right, continuing to scoot eastward. Next, we have 30 a also in Walton county. It’s technically Santa Rosa beach, but we call it 30 a because that’s the name of the little county road that goes along the beach. It’s about 14 miles total. There’s a bunch of little communities along 30 a. So 30 a is going to be a little different than Destin and Miramar beach. There’s a lot of rules on 30 a where there are no. There’s no commercialization allowed, really.

Avery Carl [00:15:59]:
So there’s only local restaurants, only local salons, only local businesses. There’s no drive throughs. You have to go out to highway 98 for any chain restaurants or drive thrus. And there’s only one to two, maybe three condo buildings on 30 a. They don’t allow big condos, so everything’s going to be a single family. 30 a can lean more towards the lifestyle purchase. There are a lot of. And by lifestyle purchase, I mean people that aren’t necessarily buying for cash flow.

Avery Carl [00:16:27]:
They’re buying because they want to own a house here that they can use, and then they’re renting it to offset those costs. However, there still are a lot of deals that are good for cash flow. You just kind of have to know where to look. So some of the bigger names of communities around 30 a are Rosemary Beach, Seaside, Greaton beach. Those are the really expensive areas and that a lot of people want to go to. Like, if you’re coming to visit 30 a, you’re going to go walk around seaside and do all the shops and all the restaurants and stuff. But if you buy in the little pockets that are kind of in between those big names, you can get a house for significantly less money, that you can just take a quick bike ride or, you know, a five minute walk into those expensive areas. So those are the.

Avery Carl [00:17:15]:
I recommend buying in the little. The pockets. So, um, like Dune, Allen, Blue Mountain. I love Blue Mountain. Seacrest. Sea Grove is also. That’s right between seaside and, um, and Alice beach. Really, really nice.

Avery Carl [00:17:32]:
But there’s a mix of different kinds of houses. It’s not all like, ultra luxury. They are going to be more expensive. So if you want to be on 30 a, buy the pocket buying in the pocket is my recommendation, but I’m sure you guys probably have a few things to add.

Pete Appezatto [00:17:46]:
Yeah, no. 30 a. I feel, you know, it’s from the history lessons I’ve gotten from people that live here and from Uber drivers picking up at the airport and from my own research, you know, 30 years ago, it was really nothing. There was really nothing there.

January Johnson [00:18:02]:
Nothing before 1995.

Pete Appezatto [00:18:04]:
Yeah. So it’s crazy how quickly this area has exploded. And for people, especially the well to do type traveler, that’s really sort of where they. I find they’re gravitating towards. It’s all newer construction. It’s all higher end. The towns are like planned communities, so there’s a rhyme and a reason behind it, but they all have their own feel. So you go from Rosemary to Alice, the look changes.

Pete Appezatto [00:18:35]:
You go from Alice to seaside, it’s a whole different look, which is really cool because you’re driving along this 14 miles road, and it’s not all the same. It just differs as you make your way from west to east.

January Johnson [00:18:50]:
I call it beach summer camp because it’s, you know, it’s just got that small town feel. People are on bikes and, you know, and we are super drivable. I mean, most of the people who come here drive here, and so people expect to drive. So even if you have a property in the pocket, as Avery says, people are going to drive to the pearl and they’re going to drive to, you know, a state park or they’re going to drive to the national seashore. They want to see things while they’re here. Some people want to just stay where they are, and that’s fine, too. But we should also note that in the rosemary 30 a area, you are not going to be anywhere close to the sand. You’re going to be in the.

January Johnson [00:19:27]:
I mean, your property is not going to be on the sand. Your property is going to be way back from the sand, and you’re going to have a bike experience and a walking experience. But unless you’re in the ten to $15 million purchases, you’re not going to be on the sand in Rosemary.

Avery Carl [00:19:46]:
Oh, yeah. I would honestly never. Watch me eat my words. In a few years, something will happen, and I will do it. But I would never recommend for an investor personally to buy in rosemary because it’s $5 million more expensive to be in it than next door to it. And there’s just no reason for that from an investment standpoint. But if you buy in seacrest next door, you can get in for a couple million maybe three. It just depends on the property, and it’s a much better price point.

Avery Carl [00:20:15]:
But again, like, you, you do have to buy the pocket. Yeah. Um, and I wouldn’t necessarily recommend buying, like, directly in seaside, or I would 1000% never recommend buying in Alice for cash. I mean, if you just want to own there, great. But, uh, cash flow wise, it’s just probably not a good decision. I call Alice, like, the most high end ghost town I’ve ever seen, because every time I drive through there, you know, everything is so beautiful, and it’s white and has a really, really, like, the tallest, uh, palm trees in the area. But, like, there’s always only two people that I ever see. Every time I drive through there, I never see people.

Avery Carl [00:20:53]:
Yeah. So 38, you’re buying the pocket. I love blue mountain for deals. And then Seagrove and Seacrest. Those would be my three recommendations for looking for the pocket deals. And there are every now and then you’ll be able to get, like, a small, old Florida bungalow that has been there for a long time. But a lot of those are getting knocked down to build big, huge houses. So I love it here.

Avery Carl [00:21:16]:
I do have a rental on 30 a in Gulf Place, but it’s definitely. You have to be patient and persistent to find a cash flowing deal here, as with anywhere. So now if we don’t have anything else to add to 30 a. I know January’s been waiting for her time to shine. The Panama City beach queen. We’ll scoot over to Panama City beach.

January Johnson [00:21:39]:
All right, well, your money is going to go farthest in Panama City beach of anywhere on the Emerald coast. I would. I would also say Emerald and forgotten coast, but definitely Emerald coast. There’s. There’s a, you know, there’s like an older section of PCB and a kind of newer section of PCB. We had a condo building boom here between 2005 and 2009. Lots of buildings went up. So if you’re looking for a condo, those, you know, there’s lots of choices there.

January Johnson [00:22:05]:
But my favorite part of Panama City beach is lower grand lagoon. If you’re looking at a map, it’s the far, farthest east edge of Panama City beach. It butts up to the St. Andrews State park. It’s below the lagoon and above the gulf, so you can walk to both of them. And I do sell quite a few properties in this area because they are affordable. You can get a single family for a decent price. You know, walkable to the lagoon, walkable to the gulf.

January Johnson [00:22:32]:
The place where I go to the beach when I you know, as a local, go behind schooners and get my food and my drink and my rental beach chair and good parking and good beach access and all that. It is golf cardable. You don’t have to have a golf cart here, but a lot of people like to, but it’s not necessary. There’s plenty of places guests can rent, but that’s my favorite part. And of course, we have townhome communities. We do have lots of condos on the beach as well, on the far eastern edge. And it’s a pretty long stretch toward the western edge of Panama City beach. It’s what people say is quieter.

January Johnson [00:23:06]:
There’s definitely not the family attractions like Ripley’s believe it or not, and all that on the western edge. Sometimes the neighborhoods can be a little mixed over there, but it is quieter, that’s for sure. We have a big shopping area that a lot of people. Not that exciting, but it’s got a lot of, you know, seafood, touristy restaurants. Yeah. So that’s desirable to be around that area. And, yeah, townhomes, condos, and single family, I think, are all the most affordable of anywhere on the Emerald coast in Panama City beach.

Avery Carl [00:23:40]:
I think I would probably agree with that. And by the way, guys, so we’ve been talking about how all these areas are very drivable. The majority of our tourism in all these areas, and I’ll get to forgotten coast in a minute, are driving in from the southeast. So everywhere from, you know, Texas to the east, uh, and Kentucky slash Virginia to the south, these are the beaches that those people come to when they go to the beach. We do have three airports in the area, though, so we’ve got Pensacola, which I think is the biggest. Uh, we’ve got Panama City, and then we have the Destin Fort Walton airport also. So lots of airport options. We are turning into more of a fly to destination.

Avery Carl [00:24:18]:
But, I mean, the entire southeast comes here for vacation. We’re actually in the middle of Atlanta spring break right now, and you cannot leave your house slash office. Like, there’s nowhere you need to go during Atlanta spring break or Houston spring break because there’s just so many people here. Um, okay, now I’ll hit the forgotten coast. Y’all feel free to. To pop in on, on any points you want to make there. So east of Panama City, there’s what we call the forgotten coast. And it’s called the forgotten coast because when the entire rest of Florida was getting developed, somehow the forgotten coast was forgotten about.

Avery Carl [00:24:52]:
And it is not as developed like or not developed at all. So just east of Panama City, there is Mexico beach, then there’s Port St. Joe. If you go a little bit further east off of Port St. Joe is a big, it’s a Cape peninsula island, but it’s called Cape San blas, which is out in the water. So if you are standing on the beach in Port St. Joe, you’re on the bay and you’re looking out, you can see Cape sandblast kind of off in the distance. So it’s a cape out off of port St.

Avery Carl [00:25:22]:
Joe. And yeah, I actually own one on Cape sandblast, and I love it. And then, um, east of that, in the water, another island called St. George island. Kind of similar vibe. The single families are going to be more affordable in these areas than Destin and Miramar Beach 38, all that. But the difference here is that a lot of the tourists who are going to the true Emerald coast, so Panama City to Destin, Pensacola, those areas are really developed. There’s a lot of attractions other than just the beach.

Avery Carl [00:25:57]:
There’s lots and lots of places to eat, uh, lots of restaurants, like anything you could think of, all kinds of putt putt go karts, everything. But the forgotten coast doesn’t have any of that. As a matter of fact, it’s all like, there might be two or three grocery stores, period. Out on Cape sandblast, where my property is, it’s all vacation rentals. There’s only one condo development, and there’s not a grocery store. There are two convenience stores that have. That are kind of big, that have like anything you might have forgotten, like, oh, I forgot crab boil. And I’m trying to, you know, boil crabs tonight or they have everything thing you could possibly need to get through the week, but it’s not going to be like going to an actual grocery store.

Avery Carl [00:26:38]:
So I would venture to say that tourists who are coming to this area are looking for the true just beach bum experience. They’re going to stay in their house, they’re going to walk to the beach, and they’re going to walk home. And there are like three restaurants on the cape. There’s one in Mexico beach, there’s a handful in Port St. Joe, I think is the most, uh, actual town ish. There’s like a cute little town square that’s about ten minutes off the cape if you want to go from the cape. And there’s like a few mexican restaurants, uh, on the cape, the two or three restaurants that are out there. It’s kind of like if your aunt, who’s a really good cook started a restaurant and she’s just not that great at running a business.

Avery Carl [00:27:19]:
So you’ll go and they’ll be open sometimes during the hours that they say they’re going to be open, and the food will be amazing and it’s going to be so amazing, but the efficiency is not going to be there, period. Um, and, you know, same thing with St. George island. Uh, but Port St. Joe’s got a piggly wiggly. That’s the biggest grocery store over there. So it’s definitely a different traveler, a different type of experience. Uh, Pete mentioned that 30 years ago, 30 a was just kind of nothing.

Avery Carl [00:27:48]:
So a lot of the people who used to love going to 30 a 15 to 30 years ago when it was not so crowded, now a lot of those vacationers have, have moved over to vacationing in Mexico beach and Cape San blast and St. George island because it’s not as crowded and it’s kind of like what 38 was years ago. So I think we’ve covered all the little areas. Yeah, there’s a few points that I want to make, but I’ll save those for a different episode. So let’s talk about what we are buying in each of those areas so we don’t have to go in any particular order. You guys can just kind of, kind of take off. But, you know, are we buying single families? Are we buying condos? What’s, what’s the best thing to buy on the beach? Off the beach? How are we. Someone take it away?

Pete Appezatto [00:28:38]:
I think no matter where you are buying, I think one of the most important things is proximity to the beach. So if, whether you’re on the beachfront condo, obviously, that’s ultimately. But with buying homes, I think the proximity to the beach is super important. You don’t want to be that far because like I tell all my clients, when you’re, when you’re buying a property in a beach market, the number one amenity is the beach. So you want to be super convenient to get to the beach. And if you could walk and not have to drive and look for parking, that’s ultimate. But regardless, what’s that?

Austin Lewis [00:29:15]:
I said, absolutely. That’s, I tell my clients, very similar. Number one, on your, on your pride, your, your buy box needs to be proximity to the beach. Number two needs to be number of bedrooms you can get. It’s like you said that people are coming here to go to the beach for sure. Condos. Honestly, personally, whenever I’ve, you know, just kind of fiddled with numbers, I see a lot better cash flow if someone’s going to buy a condo, if you’re going to buy over about a two bedroom condo, you can normally get a lot more bang for your buck as a single family home or townhome in my area personally. But, yeah, you want to be close to the beach.

Pete Appezatto [00:29:57]:
And then obviously, yeah, like Austin mentioned, obviously you want to have enough bedrooms to accommodate a decent number of guests because in these markets, like we’ve said earlier, you know, the majority of the people are driving in. So typically, you know, when you’re not flying in and you’re driving in, a lot of these people, and I see it firsthand. I’m along the beach almost every day. Here in Destin, you see large groups. It’s not just typically one family, it’s usually one or two. So even at the grocery store, I see, you know, two moms and their kids loading up the carts with food. So, you know, typically they’re not going to fit in a condo. So they’re looking for single family homes in a lot of, in a lot of instances.

Pete Appezatto [00:30:41]:
Obviously, there are condos in Destin also. But I think Destin tends to be sort of a single family heavy type market, single family home type market.

January Johnson [00:30:53]:
It also depends on your financing, because if you’re, if you are trying to do a second home loan, a vacation home loan, and you 10% down, you can’t get a condo because they all require, at least in my market, I tell people 25%. I heard Austin say 20, but definitely 25. And up in Panama City beach and around here, and it’s primarily because of the way the condo building is used. It’s not used as a residential building. It’s used as a hotel. And so there’s a different risk level to the lender on different, various different points. So your terms are different. And if you want to do a vacation home loan, condos are out for you.

January Johnson [00:31:29]:
But townhomes and single family both finance the same. And, you know, you can get very affordable townhomes if you, if all you can afford is something smaller, like two bedrooms, then get it close to the beach. And I’ve got townhome communities that, you know, you can definitely do that, that have pools and shuffleboard and, you know, a beachfront pool and clubhouse and all that kind of stuff. So you can get, you can get even closer even if you’re at the lower end of a budget that is doable. You know, there’s pros and cons to everything. Single family homes, you know, you can market to people who have a boat there’s lots of fishing here. There’s, you know, there’s places you can put your boat in. I mean, granted, that’s not a lot of customers that come down here hauling a boat, necessarily, but they could, and I definitely have parking at two of my rentals.

January Johnson [00:32:13]:
That is, there’s enough parking that people could have boats and they do a lot. So they’re different. Each different property type has its pros and cons, but financing is going to be a filter for a lot of people, for sure.

Austin Lewis [00:32:25]:
And they all play their part. Like, I mean, I’ve got clients that own one bedroom condos overlooking the gulf that kill it, and they, you know, that’ll be premier for snowbirds, too, during the offseason. You know, the snowbirds coming down aren’t going to typically going to want to stay anything bigger than maybe a two bedroom. So they all play their part. It’s not saying that you just shouldn’t buy a one bedroom condo, but of course, the, the more bedrooms you get overall, the higher your revenue will be.

Avery Carl [00:32:54]:
For sure.

January Johnson [00:32:55]:
There’s a couple of pockets of townhomes over in Panama City beach, too, in different locations that have two units in one where the bottom level will be a one, one that you can lock out and rent separately, and the upper would be a three three. So the whole thing is a four four. But you can either rent it all together or you can rent it separately, and that gives you some extended season. And there’s a couple of areas I know that because people like a little mother in law suite, and I definitely own a property myself that has a mother in law suite in the background, and it’s nice for the flexibility for you. Or if you wanted to come down and rent the, you know, stay in your one bedroom and still make money on the upper, you know, people can do that, too.

Pete Appezatto [00:33:31]:
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. That’s a good point that Austin touched on is, you know, these markets are also very big for snowbirds, and typically snowbirds are looking for two bedrooms or less. So, and they want to be close to the beach, typically so, or in like one of those sort of golf communities. They, you know, they’re not looking typically for a large home in the winter months. They’re looking for a two bedroom condo or so. So this, this market is huge for snowbirds. A lot of the properties I’ve sold recently, when I was looking at them with my clients, the snowbirds are in there for three months.

Pete Appezatto [00:34:08]:
So that’s definitely something to figure into your numbers because that’s pretty much guaranteed revenue for three months out of the year.

January Johnson [00:34:17]:
The other thing about snowbirds is they form a community of people and they come down here to the same places year after year, and they see their friends from all over the place year after year, which is very interesting. And I mean, I myself have had snowbirds come six and seven years in a row to my place. My places are not on Panama City beach, but still, if they find a great host in a great area and there’s lots to do or proximity to what they want to do, then they will be loyal people.

Pete Appezatto [00:34:43]:
Absolutely. Two of the properties I just sold in the last month, one snowbird set, have been there for 14 years in a row, and another one has been coming to the same property for seven.

January Johnson [00:34:53]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:34:56]:
One thing I want to hit on, too, is that depending on what your budget is and what size property you want is probably going to determine whether it’s a condo or a townhome or a house. So there’s more lower occupancy single family in Panama City than over in 38. Miramar Destin, Pensacola. But typically, if you’re looking for a one, two, maybe even three bedroom, most of the inventory for that is going to be a condo. And the single families typically start at four bedrooms and up. So if you’re looking for a lower occupancy unit, it’s probably going to be a condo in most cases. And like Pete said, the snowbirds like to stick to smaller places. So if you get a big five bedroom, you’re probably not going to have an off season season renter.

Avery Carl [00:35:42]:
So keep that in mind. And if you’re getting a condo, again, in my opinion, and let me know if this is different in y’all’s different micro markets, but you want the condo to be on the beach. Whereas if it’s a single family, as long as it’s walkable or golf portable to the beach, then you’re in good shape. You don’t want a condo that’s, you know, across like, you know, you don’t want to with some exceptions. So there are going to be some, some situations where it makes sense. But you don’t want a condo that’s five blocks off the beach. You want condos on the beach. If you can, single families walkable to the beach.

Avery Carl [00:36:18]:
I would say across the entire forgotten and Emerald coast and Pennymosity beach, you.

January Johnson [00:36:23]:
Can definitely get three bedroom homes. I mean, you can also get two bedrooms, or you can get a duplex that’s got, you know, two, a two one on each side. That’s a different financing, too, because that’s multifamily usually, but. But still, you can get three bedroom single family walkable to the beach. And I think Panama City beach is probably the only place.

Avery Carl [00:36:40]:
Yeah, I think you’re right about that.

Austin Lewis [00:36:41]:
Of course, you know, a single family home that’s on the gulf is going to rent like crazy, but the obscene price that you pay for it, in my opinion, typically, probably isn’t going to make it a good investment.

January Johnson [00:36:53]:
Multiple million.

Avery Carl [00:36:55]:
Yeah, it’s going to be several million dollars more than the one one block back that’s the same size. And then you’ve also got the added insurance costs of being on the sand and wind and all that. And we’ll talk about that in another episode. But yeah, there’s very few scenarios as an investor, personally, that I think it makes sense to buy something right on the sand just because it’s going to be three to four times the price of the one across the street, one to two blocks back, that’s still going to get rented. So that’s my opinion, though I’m sure somebody is going to be emailing me telling me why I’m wrong about that, but I don’t care.

January Johnson [00:37:30]:
My first sale at the short term shop was on Navarre beach, and it was a. It was a duplex townhome. I mean, my people bought one side of it, but it was a four four, and it was on the sand. And I couldn’t believe it. They got a good price. They paid 1.25 for it in March of last year. So they’ve owned it just a year now. But that was a very good price for on the sand.

January Johnson [00:37:54]:
And they accepted some less. Less great conditions in the property because it was on the sand like that. That made a. A big difference to them, but, yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:38:08]:
Also, you can. If your property is just a little too far to be comfortable walking, you can’t. There are companies that will provide golf carts for your clients to. For your guests to rent. You can own the golf cart, but I prefer renting it from these companies. They’ll drop it off, then the liability switches from you to the company, and we’ll get further into that. On other.

January Johnson [00:38:29]:
There’s also an area over there what used to be called the hub and is now called the big chill or something, where both places have changed. Have a tram that will pick you up and take you to the beach in some. Some locations. I’m not super familiar with every one of them, but some of them have, you know, the businesses around have funded that, so they’ll give you a ride over to wherever.

Avery Carl [00:38:48]:
Yeah. The villages of Crystal beach over in Destin. They’re a little far from the beach, but they’re all really, really cute and they have a really amazing pool. They have a tram that the Hoa pays for to the beach. There’s technically is a trolley thing that goes all the way from both ends of 38, but I don’t know anything about that. I should probably research that for another episode. But I know there is one. I’ve never used it.

January Johnson [00:39:13]:
It’s not spring break. I’ll go test it out and report back. Yeah, maybe I should report back during spring break. Live. Scary out here. Get on the tram.

Avery Carl [00:39:24]:
Yeah. So let’s, let’s dive into condos a little bit. Not too hard on the financing, but on a lot of people who are going to be listening to this or be like, why would you buy in a condo? The HOA is going to rule you out immediately. So let’s talk about why condos are such a good opportunity in these markets, because they really are. And I’m, I’m very pro condo in markets like this, but a lot of people are scared of them. So, um, and I think that there are a lot of good condo deals because people are scared of them and because they’re a little more difficult to finance. So I personally, Luke and I made a gigantic, stupid mistake. When we first started, we had a condo under contract in Panama City, and we actually had one in Destin, too, for.

Avery Carl [00:40:08]:
I don’t even want to say how much it was back then. It was, it was pennies. And we used our regular, conventional lender, and they were like, oh, yeah, I think I can bang this through. So that, guys, that is the, the death knell of a deal is when a lender who isn’t familiar with the condos in the area you’re buying says, oh, yeah, I think I can make this work. They cannot. It won’t. It will not.

January Johnson [00:40:32]:
I just had farmers bank of Kansas, because when I thought that they could get a better rate, I’m like, I gave you my speech about this. When we first, they went through three different lenders, only to end up back with a local person. I was like, all right, well, that’s two weeks gone.

Pete Appezatto [00:40:46]:
No, you have to kind of, this is where our expertise has to come in, because I’ve had clients already pre approved and they want to go for a condo. And I’m like, you know, in my experience, the chance of this happening is probably less than 50%. So do you want to make an offer or do you want to close the deal?

January Johnson [00:41:04]:
And here’s why. Here’s why. Because they say, oh, yeah, we loan on condos, but they think residential condos. And this is a condo that’s used like a hotel. And so they don’t. Right. People have to. The lenders have to do this due diligence that local lenders already have done.

January Johnson [00:41:21]:
They already can tell you this is a non warrantable condo, and here’s the reasons, and they can update it from time to time. And I’m not saying these things can’t change, but the lender at the Farmers bank of Kansas was, you know, had to call the HOa. And he was like, well, we called the Casa.

Avery Carl [00:41:36]:
I’m like, why would you.

January Johnson [00:41:39]:
That’s the number on the website. Like, that’s the management company. Like, they don’t even know that, right? They don’t know the difference between the HOA and the management company for rental property. So, you know, don’t. Yeah, just stick with your. With your realtor, who knows best and can save you all this time.

Pete Appezatto [00:41:56]:
We’re here to guide you, if the.

Austin Lewis [00:41:58]:
List agent will even let you, you know, get that far. A lot of times I’ll have to write an offer contingent. Like, like you said, it’ll be some Oklahoma bank or whatever, you know? And I’ll have to say, hey, this is contingent upon them getting pre approved with a local lender because I know they’re going to kick it back and it’s just not going to work.

Avery Carl [00:42:17]:
Well, I mean, I went all the way down that road in the studio like I owned a. This is the back, like in the old days, 2017. And Luke and I, we own two cabins in the Smokies. We, like, thought we knew everything about everything, and then came down here to get a couple condos, used our conventional lender in Tennessee, got halfway through the deals, and she was like, actually, no, we can’t make these warrantable. Sorry, you can’t? And so because she couldn’t do it conventional, she said, these aren’t conventionally financeable. Our stupid newbie. Not stupid newbies are not stupid, but we. Rookie.

Avery Carl [00:42:51]:
Rookie mistake. We were like, oh, well, these aren’t conventionally finance. Well, I guess everybody who owns a condo in Panama City or destined paid cash for these. Like, where are all these people getting all these. This cash? No, that’s not the case. It’s. They’re just getting portfolio loans or commercial loans, just not conventional. So if we were that dumb to start off.

Avery Carl [00:43:12]:
There are plenty of other people who are avoiding condos because they think the same thing. They don’t realize, the general public doesn’t realize there are other types of financing besides conventional. So I think a lot of people skip over condos because they are weirded out by the financing. They skip over condos because if you were to go buy a condo in like Dallas, where a lot of people live, yeah, you’re going to get voted out of that hoa. They’re going to, they’re going to rule you out. They’re going to say no short term rentals. So a lot of people get scared when they come to markets like this or Myrtle beach where there’s a, a ton of condos. They think the same thing applies.

Avery Carl [00:43:43]:
But the reason that the condo buildings exist in all of these markets is to house vacation rentals. So I think because of that, they present a really, really great opportunity for investors because typically in the general real estate investing world, condos are kind of a no no. But I think that they’re a great option. I’m sitting underneath one of my condos right now, my office.

January Johnson [00:44:04]:
So people, people also conflate the word hoa with bossy residents who are going to control you. When we say Hoa, we just mean the fee that you pay for all of the amenities. I mean, yes, there is an association. Yes, there are meetings. Yes, there are things that happen. But these are all owners who are vacation rental owners and they want to vote in their own best interest about things. When we say Hoa, we just mean the monthly or quarterly or annual fee that you pay for the insurance and the water and the groundskeeping and the amenities and all of that kind of thing.

Austin Lewis [00:44:39]:
Yeah, and I was going to say, too that the insurance is cheaper. I mean, that’s a big selling point right now, at least in my area is, hey, you know, your insurance, you’ve only have to insure walls in, you know, that you’ve got, with that hoa payment you’re, you’re given, you’re also kind of helping towards you. There’s an association insurance, so, you know, you’re saving money on that. Like Avery said that. But I get a lot of clients maybe that are newbies and they’re really nervous, hey, what if the Hoa shuts us down? And that’s definitely a selling point that, hey, since they’re non warrantable, they’re non warrantable because they’re so heavily investor owned. So even if someone does come in and say, hey, we don’t want short term rentals in here anymore. They’re going to get voted out. You’re not going to have to worry about that.

Austin Lewis [00:45:30]:
You’ve got that. If you, with the higher down payment, you’re, you know, that kind of sucks, but your cash flow is going to be higher. There’s a lot of pluses, you know, for, for people that live out of state, this is their first one. They’re nervous about, hey, how am I going to do this? How, you know, I don’t have any contacts. Okay, well, exactly. You just need a cleaner. They handle just about everything else.

Pete Appezatto [00:45:56]:
Yeah. One of the things that people kind of get concerned about is the monthly hoa fee. That’s my biggest pushback from clients is I don’t want to pay the monthly HOA fee. And then when you sort of break it down, I tell them, listen, you get sticker shock when you first hear it, depending on the building. But when you actually break down the fees that are included in there, it’s your water, it’s your garbage, it’s your maintenance, it’s your amenities, pools, all that stuff. Not to mention the complete insurance of the building, Internet, cable in a lot of instances. So basically, the only thing you’re going to have to pay in addition to your monthly HOa is your electric bill. And I’ve even seen some hoas that include electric.

Pete Appezatto [00:46:37]:
Not many, but there’s a few, but they’re usually on the higher end. So you’re literally writing one check a month. So when you break down that several hundred dollars a month, whatever the fee may be, now, you start analyzing out like, oh, it’s really not as bad as it seems.

January Johnson [00:46:55]:
Right off the bat, Avery, I wanted to go back and put something in about Panama City beach that when we’re talking about where to buy, Panama City beach is a short term rental, neighborhood by neighborhood. So, like those of us who sell down here, we have maps and we can sort by what is short term rental and what is not. But a lot of times I’ll have a client send me a listing. And what about this house? I was like, did I send that to you? No, I saw it on Zillow. Okay, well, don’t, you know, cease and desist from Zillow and Redfin and all that, because I’ve already done that work for you. And we do, we do set aside some neighborhoods that are for regular folks. You know, not everything is vacation. There are permanent residents on Panama City beach, only about 18,000, but still, they got to have someplace to live.

January Johnson [00:47:37]:
So not every home is short term rentable. So don’t get excited that you found some deal that you thought eluded me, because it didn’t.

Avery Carl [00:47:45]:
Deals do not allude. There are regular people who want to have to go to the Walmart on Panama City beach and look at everybody’s butt cheeks.

January Johnson [00:47:57]:
I didn’t mean to throw that in the middle of the condo thing, but I just didn’t want to leave it out because it’s.

Avery Carl [00:48:01]:
No, I appreciate, yeah, that’s a good point.

Pete Appezatto [00:48:04]:
That’s a good point. Actually, we get that a lot. You know, I’ll get clients that send me a listing from Zillow or realtor.com. and for a house in Destin that’s priced at 550, its north of 98, sort of like what we discussed before. So the good thing about these markets is theyre mature markets. Vacation rentals have been here for decades, but its not a free for all. You cant just short term rent any property there is. The people that live here dont want that happening.

Pete Appezatto [00:48:33]:
And you wouldnt really necessarily want that happening either, because if youre a mile or two from the beach, is it really going to rent that well?

January Johnson [00:48:42]:
Or if you’re short term renting in a neighborhood that’s not full of short term rental people, do you want neighbors upset with you?

Avery Carl [00:48:49]:
And that exists? So I live in one of those neighborhoods. We don’t have an hoa, but all the residents have lived there a long time. Like, I don’t think my neighbors even like me just because I’m new and I’m not planning to do anything. But, like, you represent them, though. Yeah. They’re older and retired and just cranky kinda. They’re very nice, wonderful people. I’m sure they’re never gonna hear this, but still, I don’t feel like either of my neighbors are fans of me.

Avery Carl [00:49:16]:
Except for our one next door neighbor who’s awesome and we give him craft beer every Christmas.

Pete Appezatto [00:49:20]:
Anyway, you’re the short term rental queen, so they’re getting.

Avery Carl [00:49:24]:
I don’t think that they do.

Pete Appezatto [00:49:26]:
They know.

Avery Carl [00:49:28]:
I don’t think they do, but I don’t want them to know that.

January Johnson [00:49:32]:
So.

Avery Carl [00:49:32]:
But if somebody were to like, there’s a lot a few doors down that’s for sale, that comes with building plans for like a big, huge mega mansion that they are going to rent, and the neighbors do not like it. And while there’s no, there’s no hoa to actually do anything about it, they will make your life hard. So. And I don’t blame them. I don’t want it next to me either. But, yeah, you do have to kind of watch out for that. There’s not so much here, like most people understand if you’re going to live here, that this is what you’re dealing with. And I, I personally love seeing tourists.

Avery Carl [00:50:05]:
Like, there’s one riding by his bike right by my window right now. Reminds me of being a little kid and coming down here on my family, with my family when I was little and remembering how much fun we had. So I love the tourists, but sometimes the rest of our local people do not love them. Anyway, that, back to what we’re talking about. So is there anything, let’s talk about things that do not work because, you know, investors, we all like to find the deal. We all like to find that one thing that other people might not have thought of that we’re going to be really successful at. And. Oh, Jan, go ahead.

January Johnson [00:50:38]:
What doesn’t work is low, stupid low ball offers. This is not the housing market. This is a vacation rental market. I’m not saying we can’t get properties under asking. I will definitely consult with you about that and we all will talk to you about the best way to structure your offer. But please don’t think that you can come in here and offer $100,000 under asking on a $500,000 property and somebody’s going to be desperate and need to sell it. They’re selling a business, basically.

Avery Carl [00:51:06]:
And so it’s a different mindset. So, yeah, that does work. And we’ll have a whole episode on this where I’ll turn you loose on it, Jan, but it is, it is a different type of seller. So the super low ball offers, not that they can’t work here, but that works really well. And like a c class single family neighborhood, like where people live in vacation market, you know, I would say, like, you know, in the midwest or any medium sized metro market across the country, but here, all these properties are either second homes or investment properties. So these are things that people are fine waiting to unload at full retail. You’re not going to run into many distressed sellers. But in terms of, like, geographic things that don’t work, I’ve seen a few people so don’t.

Avery Carl [00:51:52]:
Guys do not two things. First thing, please don’t make us sell you something north of 98. You can short term rent north of 98 in Walton county. I’m not entirely sure about Bay can’t county, Jan, can you?

Pete Appezatto [00:52:04]:
Yeah.

January Johnson [00:52:04]:
Yeah, you can. And there’s one little pocket over by Lake Powell on the far west edge of PC that people do short term rent, but your returns are not going to be as good as they are south. So that’s the only, when I tell people there’s one exception. That’s what I mean. But I qualify it with all of that. So there is newer construction. You can get in at a lower price if you’re okay being by the lake, which is a dune lake, which is a cool ecological feature we have here. That’s awesome.

January Johnson [00:52:30]:
But it is not your white sandy beach walkable location. It is close to 30 a and so you can, you’re closer to drive to the pearl or whatever if you want to go there. But it’s not your typical beach property. And I don’t even my map on the MLS. When I do my sorts, you know, searches for people, I don’t even, I don’t even look at anything. I carve out a very specific area that I know what my people mean when they say they want a beach property. They don’t mean on Panama City beach somewhere. They mean close to the sand.

January Johnson [00:52:57]:
So let me go ahead and cut all the nonsense out for you. I don’t, you know, north of the lagoon. Yes. Short term rentable. Okay, there’s some over there, but that’s not what, that’s not what you want when you want a beach house. So we’re not even going to look over there.

Austin Lewis [00:53:08]:
I get some clients like that and I pretty much tell them, hey, you guys are going to be getting overflow. Like you’ll, you’ll get bookings, but pretty much take all the numbers that we’ve been talking about on the beach properties and throw them out the window and, you know, cut them in half, basically. I mean, you, yeah, you can get the, it seems like a screaming deal whenever you can get it for, for half the price, but it’s just not worth it in my opinion.

Avery Carl [00:53:32]:
Yeah, it can be very tempting because the properties north of 98 are significantly cheaper. I had one of my first deals in Florida, fired me and bought somewhere north of 98. And then I recently saw her asking in some Facebook groups why she isn’t getting bookings. And there were a lot of comments that said, well, it’s your location, so guys just know it can be really tempting. I’m tempted myself sometimes to buy something north of 98 and just try it. But it just, in terms of income, it’s just most of the time, of course, there’s exceptions to every rule. Not going to be the best idea. The other thing that Jan mentioned about buying north of the lagoon in Panama City beach.

Avery Carl [00:54:16]:
So also, you’re not buying north of the bay in Walton county or Okaloosa County. I don’t know if you can by north of the bay in Okaloosa county, unless you went to, like, Niceville, but. Or north of the bay in Fort Walton beach. So I’ve had clients before who, when they’re looking at the numbers, and again, we have an entire episode dedicated to numbers. So we’ll. We’ll cover this more in detail there. But they’re looking at, say, Fort Walton beach. Well, all of the vacation rentals, all the good vacation areas are on Okaloosa island, and then there’s the bay north of the island, and then there’s Fort Walton proper north of that.

Avery Carl [00:54:53]:
And a lot of people were taking the numbers from Okaloosa island and applying them to north of the bay and then saying, oh, my God, look at this three bedroom house for, like, 400,000 north of the bay. And I’m going to make like, these numbers are amazing, and you’re just not going to get. People don’t go to Fort Walton to go to the bay. They will stay in a crappy condo. They will stay in a port of John on the beach before they will come stay on the other side of the bay. So remember that. You have to remember that just because, again, we have another episode on data, but a lot of times, you have to make sure you’re only applying the data to the small area that it actually applies to and not trying to extrapolate that out into or that’s not the right word for that. Not trying to extend that data into areas that it doesn’t actually apply.

Avery Carl [00:55:37]:
So not north of the bays, any of the bays or lagoons. Not north of 98, except in very special, specific circumstances, is.

Pete Appezatto [00:55:46]:
Yep, I agree with that.

Avery Carl [00:55:47]:
Same thing with Navarre. I wouldn’t buy in Mary Esther, which is north of the bay, and Navarre. So, um, anything else in terms of Port St. Joe?

January Johnson [00:55:57]:
Because we talked about forgotten coast, and Port St. Joe, we almost forgot about, has very specific places that are short terminable. So you can’t just take Port St. Joe as a whole. Like, you can’t necessarily take Panama City beach as a whole. So I don’t know as much about Port St. Joe as you guys do or you, Avery, but. But I just wanted to point that out.

Avery Carl [00:56:17]:
Well, actually, that’s another. Another thing I would like to point out in terms of where to buy. So Cape sandblast is going to have the highest income. So you’re going to see the highest incomes on Cape sandblast as opposed to like Port St. Joe proper. Because Port St. Joe is like Jan said, there’s only certain areas where you can short term rent. You’ll see a little bit higher returns in Mexico beach than in Port St.

Avery Carl [00:56:42]:
Joe. Um, because there’s not a lot of actual beach in Port St. Joe proper. There is a new condo development that I’ve seen a lot of people talking about as being beachfront and it’s when the tide is in, there is no beach. It goes straight up to the highway. So, um, Port St. Joe, I mean there, there can be some places that’ll work. But again, you kind of have to just know the area and lean on your agent on that.

Avery Carl [00:57:11]:
But in terms of places to buy, definitely stick south of, I guess. Is that still 98 all the way over there? Right south of 98 in Mexico beach though. 98, there’s only one row of houses below 98. So use your judgment when you’re looking at the geography of these areas that south and north of 98 in Mexico beach is you’re 50 yards from the beach still only being like the third row. So keep that in mind. Uh, 98 is basically on the beach. Uh, once you get to the forgotten.

January Johnson [00:57:47]:
Coast, so different too in Mexico beach it is to St. Joe.

Avery Carl [00:57:52]:
Yeah, yeah. So the beach is a little, the sand is a little darker over there, the water’s a little darker. It is much flatter. Uh, but then once you get out to Cape San blas and St. George island, it goes back to being nothing is as clear as Destin, Miramar Beach, Panama City. But it’s greener and clearer than it is on the bay. So it just kind of depends on what you’re looking for. There’s a lot more, uh, like not more boating activities, but different ones.

Avery Carl [00:58:19]:
So obviously there’s deep sea fishing, like just like there is over here. But over there in the fall, scalloping is a really big deal that I really want to do. I’ve never done it and I keep, I say this every year, we’re going to do that and then I forget about it until it’s too late. But scalloping looks pretty cool. You go out in like 6ft of water and they give you gloves because apparently scallops will bite you. They’re like little clams.

Austin Lewis [00:58:41]:
We go every year. It’s pretty cool.

Avery Carl [00:58:43]:
It looks so fun. And they give you get a bag and you just go to the bottom and pick them up. And I really want to do that, but I’ve just had.

January Johnson [00:58:50]:
And then when it came time to clean them, I couldn’t. I just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t put my knife in the little animal. I was like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I can’t do this.

Avery Carl [00:58:57]:
Oh, yeah, I’ll make somebody else do that. There’s a really great, like, fresh seafood place that I bet would do it for you over there. But. Yeah, I don’t. Not about cleaning stuff. No. I’ll eat it, though.

Pete Appezatto [00:59:11]:
I could scallop. I could scallop at whole foods.

Avery Carl [00:59:14]:
Yeah. Well, there’s so many while we’re doing this, like, recommendations for fresh fish places. Sexton’s in Destin is my favorite. My grandmother will take us there and, like, get one of everything. One time I was down here actually doing work before I lived here, and my grandmother’s 95 now, and she’s the best cook in the entire world. And she took me to the fish market and bought one of everything and showed me how to make every type of fish and scallops and the best way to do shrimp and all that. And that was fun.

January Johnson [00:59:46]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [00:59:46]:
Great.

Pete Appezatto [00:59:47]:
Do you still do it?

Avery Carl [00:59:48]:
So I’m too. I don’t cook at all anymore.

Austin Lewis [00:59:52]:
I like short term shop get together down here so we can go down.

Avery Carl [00:59:56]:
Yeah.

January Johnson [00:59:57]:
We can have a seafood recipe potluck.

Pete Appezatto [01:00:00]:
Yeah.

Avery Carl [01:00:02]:
All right. So anything else related to the different areas, different types of properties that work and don’t work before we take off?

Pete Appezatto [01:00:10]:
Yeah. One thing, other thing that I think that doesn’t work is, you know, this industry is getting much more competitive. So the days of just throwing it on airbnb and hoping for the best, those days, in my opinion, are over. So if you’re not thinking of something a little out of the box, I mean, you don’t have to build this crazy, like, themed, you know, whatever, but just throwing it on and hoping for the best. Those days have been gone for, I think, several years now. So just be willing to put in creativity and being a super manager, because at the end of the day, it’s all about management. So if you’re not going to manage your property effectively and respond to your guests within a really short amount of time and do what needs to be done as a host, this may not be for you.

January Johnson [01:01:02]:
Yeah. You’re in the hospitality business. A lot of people come in thinking they’re real estate investors, which, of course, you are that too. But you are in the hospitality business, and it really. It doesn’t take a whole lot to make people happy and to elevate a space but you have to do it. Yeah.

Avery Carl [01:01:21]:
All right. Well, guys, if you want to buy with any of our emerald or forgotten coast agents, you know where to find us. Agents at the shorttermshop.com. or you can find them on our Facebook group called short term rental, long term wealth, same as the book. And if you guys just have more general questions on these markets and how to invest in them, we have open office hours, myself and Luke every Thursday, and you can sign up for that@strquestions.com. thanks, everybody.